antnee
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Registered: 30th Dec 07
Location: Cov Drives: Clio 197
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With the new rules, some people thought that track cars would be a fail if they had harnesses, fixed buckets and airbags removed, but Pistonheads have posted this today
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=25433&utm_source=Facebook%2B&utm_medium=Social%2B&utm_campaign=MOT%2Bregs
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RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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looks interesting, effectively seems that it'll be at the discretion of the testing station as to whether the mods have been carried out suitably and for an intended purpose. Not sure how it will effect chavved up saxos which arent used as track cars though
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Under the new rules, any illuminated malfunction indicator lights for [snip], air bags, seat belt pre-tensioners and the like could mean a failed test.
As has always been the case?
Might be a slow news day but I'm sure this has been discussed on various forums and the general opinion was that it doesn't mean a fail so long as the car is properly done.
Still no clarification on the anamoly that if you present a car which is partially modified it may fail, but if you remove more safety equipment and re-present it, it will pass.
The phrase is 'extensively modified'.
Full statement is reproduced here - http://www.weekendracer.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=22267
[Edited on 28-03-2012 by Ian]
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gazza808
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Registered: 30th Jun 08
Location: Peterborough
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I only ever got it written on my advisory sheet before, the seat belt/airbag warning lights that is. Bar abs light got failed on that once.
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harrisp
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Registered: 15th Dec 07
Location: Derbyshire
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A lot of harnesses are mounted wrong imo anyway and should fail an MOT
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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yep this is dangerous imo
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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Seems like a lot of people building track cars just for the sake of owning a track car, its almost a scene now.
I know im no track guru in terms of doing shit loads of events, but at least iv had a fair few sessions and started out in a standard car and built up and plan to use it loads when its done, but the amount of people iv seen post track car project threads and you ask what events they have done and they say none yet have gone on and ploughed into building a fully fledged track car, why not give the standard car a go first to get used to it!
Its these people that arent really that serious and just building it for the "scene" that are cutting corners and building dangerous cars.
Project thread titles like "rally/track/stage car build" well what is it? because your build will differ a hell of a lot between all of those options
[Edited on 28-03-2012 by Steve]
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antnee
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Registered: 30th Dec 07
Location: Cov Drives: Clio 197
User status: Offline
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The airbag/pretensioner/light on wasn't a fail before, as it was a secondary safety system.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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What's wrong with that harness bar?
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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Several things mainly that its not a harness bar its.designed for inwards force from the struts to stop them flexing, the metal on the bracket the bolts go through you could probably bend with your hands, the bolts won't be high tensile and relatively thin, no spreader plates behind the bolts, and the high lateral force that will be on that bar in a crash something like 400kgs per person from memory its just going to rip straight off
[Edited on 28-03-2012 by Steve]
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Gary
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Registered: 22nd Nov 06
Location: West Yorkshire
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Standard bolts tend to be rated at 8.8. I think they'll be ok.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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No way they are only m8 or m6 way too thin, If they are like mine they will only be self tapper bolts also. Even if there is a nut behind its just going to rip straight through the metal bracket on the bar or the metal sheet of the car. Totally unsuitable and not fit for purpose, go find YouTube vids of people towing there cars on strut braces and see how easy they tear off, not designed for that load type or force
[Edited on 28-03-2012 by Steve]
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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Harness bar needs to be welded as part of a cage or welded securely to the strut housing
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Does mine get your approval
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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Better far more metal there and fixings id be inclined to weld it though imo just incase but its your car to make how you like lol. On the subject of fastnings the OEM seat belt bolts are made of different material similar to impact sockets I think they actually stretch on impact rather then shatter like the normal silver ones
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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What a load of rubbish.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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They're either M10 or M12 8.8s, spread in the arch.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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Consider this, say you experience 7 g in a crash which is perfectly possibly with a deceleration from 60mph in about half a second. That means a human body with a mass of 55kgs will place a load on that bar of about 360kgs roughly. Now that's a light person someone like Barnes and you may have to double it. Anyway let's say you have a passengar of similar ilk your looking at a total load of around 720kgs which is about 3 engines with ancillarys. Now would you hang 3 puma engines off that bar I posted and stand underneath relying on that thin metal and rubbish bolts ? Also bearing in mind that's a calc done based on lowish speeds and light people and a fairly long relative deceleration speed, you could realistically be looking at 4 engines worth of weight on that bar
[Edited on 29-03-2012 by Steve]
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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With regards to yours Ian it sounds a hell of a lot better then what I posted especially if its spread at the back
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Comparable to the OE mount point then.
When I scrap that shell I might do a deformation test with some machinery.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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Be interesting to see, video it if its shocking would be worth using it to show these people relying on a couple of self tapping bolts holding there harnesses in lol
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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In fact, could mock up a few different ones on a few different shells and push the car in to something using the bar.
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possy
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Registered: 10th Feb 10
Location: wigan bhp vaux
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Seem ok to me take ur hids out before and as long as your car is built to a good standered every thing will be fine no more duck tape and zip ties guys hahaha
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