thegsi
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Registered: 3rd Feb 07
Location: Kidderminster Drives: Evo (you can't afford one)
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Just after some feedback. My step Dad was accused of doing 50 in a 30 zone this weekend but was pulled over by one officer and was given no proof of speed. The officer stated he gauged it from his own speedo and that he would be convicted of speeding. Does anyone know if this would hold up in court? One officer alone? With no proof of speed via gun/camera ect? 
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adiohead
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Registered: 28th Sep 01
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Probably. did they issue a ticket or just threat? Probably find that nothing will happen and you won't hear anything
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0775kieran
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Registered: 28th Apr 10
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
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Sounds like pigshit
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VrsTurbo
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Registered: 8th Jun 10
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Nope its fine ive been done like that. He would of needed to be given a NIP at the road side though
Shouldn't of been doing 50 in a 30
[Edited on 17-09-2012 by VrsTurbo]
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Jimbothebarbarian
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Registered: 19th Apr 07
Location: Cumbria..........drunk..
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If they haven't got proof they can't do him.
More so when it's one officer alone. Need an in date calibrated speedo/speed gun/camera etc AFAIK.
Any half decent solicitor should get that sacked off in court if it ever got that far.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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policemans car will probably have video footage which will be speed calibrated, i was done by a similar method on the motorway.
Nothing can do
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Johnjourno
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Registered: 10th Sep 12
Location: Middlesbrough
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Only can be prosecuted if they have on board footage of their speed, and them having to accelerate to match your speed to show this on their speed display, I know this as they did it to me
The other way is by laser, and they will give you the spiel about it being calibrated on the day etc etc etc, so you have no get out clause, I know this too as this has also happened to me, the officer will read a short statement of fact that you are asked to sign to confirm his statement, don't agree, don't sign it, he might arrest you but stand your guns if they don't have good evidence, if it goes to court the officer will give a written statement of the event and you will be prosecuted, but you do get a chance to 'say your piece', I produced a grovelling letter to say why I shouldn't be banned, and got a 42 day suspension on my licience
Depending where you live the police are meant to give 10% margin for error and inaccuracy, and Teesside give 10% +2MPH (don't hold me to this, Teesside Madgistrates Court told me this a couple of years ago in a dispute on speed and were really helpful)
If you are over the speed limit it's 3 points and a fine which is variable with the excess speed value, I was doing 76 on the 70mph section of the A66, and there was a Police camera van, just a blue van with hi viz stripes on the back, looks like a work van, I got a letter a week later saying that I was speeding, and that the limit was 50mph due to road works, the road was normal, they had been building a slip road for a bridge they took years to build, no signs, no workers, and it went to court over this, the court said the options are, appeal like everyone else has been for the last year, if it is in your favour that there were no signs, you were only doing 6mph over the limit which is within the 10%+2 rule, no prosecution, if it goes against you, 26mph over the limit is 6 points and a fine, or accept the penalty today and I will give you 3 points and the minimum fine, so I took the 3 and ended it all there as I couldn't say for definite if the speed signs were there in any poorly located place
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnjourno
Depending where you live the police are meant to give 10% margin for error and inaccuracy, and Teesside give 10% +2MPH (don't hold me to this, Teesside Madgistrates Court told me this a couple of years ago in a dispute on speed and were really helpful)
incorrect, no force is meant to give you anything, some do, but its entirely down to discrection. You could be done for 31 in a 30 if they wanted, you have zero legal come back arguing about margins for error
[Edited on 17-09-2012 by Steve]
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gtitim
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Registered: 13th Feb 05
Location: the boonies
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Can be done by one officer based on opinion. It is not necessary to have an exact speed to say someone is speeding.
I have followed cars in a marked Police car (fitted with calibrated speedo). If I follow a car along a NSL (60) and my speedo says its doing 80, then whether its actually doing 75,80,85 or 90, depending on whose speedo you use or if any GPS or other device (my Tomtom in my Police car is bang on with my speedo) then whatever the actual reading, its more than 60, therefore speeding.
I have prosecuted on my word alone - followed a car at (for example) 80 in a 60 for a distance ( not a minimum required for speeding anyway, but) then stopped it, informed the driver of the reason for the stop then verbally reported them for speeding, cautioned them (although this can be done in writing at later date) and then submitted a process file for summons.
Its not alot of work, did one for wrong way round a keep left bollard the other day. Paperwork took 10 minutes.
If the PC has reported, in a few weeks / months, your dad will receive paperwork from court. He may get offered a speed awareness course. Ultimately, until 6 months have passed, your dad wont know if hes in the clear.
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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I was doing 40 , police asked me to wind my window down at the next set of lights, told me they had to do 60 to catch up with me so I was doing at least that. Tried to explain that I could be doing 10 miles an hour and they could be doing 60 to catch up if they start far enough back. Didn't have the slightest clue what I meant.
For that reason, it should in no way be possible for some idiot with a police uniform to give you any sort of legal penalty on opinion only.
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sc0ott
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Registered: 16th Feb 09
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Should of asked the coppers what the retail was on their car.
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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Would have had to explain what a car was.
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big eck
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Registered: 20th Apr 03
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Not a chance can they charge him without proof. They tried it on me a few years ago and the copper also said that I was lucky as he didn't have any evidence of the offence.
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gtitim
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Registered: 13th Feb 05
Location: the boonies
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Different rules in Scotland - needs collaberation (I think) whereas not required in England - can be single officer only and only has to have opinion of speed, not required to provide a specific speed.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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surely that can only apply though if you are going massively over the limit surely an officer cannot say, in my opinion he was doing 34 in a 30
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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Do you not see how, especially considering some of your own posts, that allowing someone's opinion to form a basis in law is ludicrous?
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gtitim
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Registered: 13th Feb 05
Location: the boonies
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
surely that can only apply though if you are going massively over the limit surely an officer cannot say, in my opinion he was doing 34 in a 30
No, and I doubt anyone would, however, someone doing say 60 in a 30, you can have the opinion the driver was speeding.
To be pedantic, if a Police car with a calibrated speedo was being driven at 30mph, and the car in front was continuously pulling away from it, maths shows that car is over the speed limit, and a statement from the officer saying they were driving at the limit and the vehicle was accelerating away then that person is speeding.
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Gary
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Registered: 22nd Nov 06
Location: West Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by Johnjourno
Depending where you live the police are meant to give 10% margin for error and inaccuracy, and Teesside give 10% +2MPH (don't hold me to this, Teesside Madgistrates Court told me this a couple of years ago in a dispute on speed and were really helpful)
incorrect, no force is meant to give you anything, some do, but its entirely down to discrection. You could be done for 31 in a 30 if they wanted, you have zero legal come back arguing about margins for error
[Edited on 17-09-2012 by Steve]
On johns side here. A differrnt profile tyre will put your speedo out so they give you that margin
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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They may at there discretion but they don't have to and will bear no weight arguing otherwise in court
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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Doesn't matter if you're on his side, it's incorrect.
If you are doing over 30 at all you are breaking the limit.
Would have to be really anal to do you for it but well within rights.
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