Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by Gaz
I'm pretty sure "Poaching" staff is illegal
Not at all, especially as they're being asked nicely to do it. Its all completely up to the individuals who assuming their contracts of employment allow it, are free to leave and do whatever.
s.188 TULRCA isn't relevant either because its not come to that yet. What they're proposing is completely workable; set up a company and tender for the work that is now available.
Whether or not it'll happen is anyone's guess. Another company might come in and win it. They may decide that can manage with the remaining staff who didn't resign. Nobody knows.
You have quite a few outcomes really -
1. Stay there and things settle down, enough staff stay and enough money is saved and the larger support unit idea succeeds.
2. Stay there and be made redundant.
2a. Stay there and be made redundant and eventually work for the new company in the future.
3. Leave now, forfeit redundancy, work for the new company in a similar role
4. Leave now, forfeit redundancy, work for the new company in a better role
5. Leave now, forfeit redundancy, set up a company and smash it
6. Leave now, forfeit redundancy, get jibbed by the new company and claim dole
Depends how safe you want to play it.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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Number 4. Are you suggesting I use the fact I'm ready to not go to lever a better role/more pay? That has crossed my mind to. Iv already been told I'm a fairly key member they will want to move over
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Yeah to the point that I'd not even consider 3. as an option I'd want to pursue. You're losing the 12 year's service, resigning your job which is a big risk itself, to work for a company with no track record, no contracts, no financial standing.
I'd be wanting a fat rise for all those unknowns.
If you're such a key member, make it known that you want more money to earn the company more money, so long as they don't bring over the dead wood. Its essentially a business decision and whoever is recruiting in the new company won't be planning to make their office look and behave like a load of coasting council workers.
Sad fact for the less ambitious but there will be casualties. They might be nice now and make it out to be ten people moving to become ten people but I would bet my socks on whoever running the new place making up their own rules once they get in the real world.
[Edited on 12-06-2013 by Ian]
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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Exactly what my old man says. This new backer will be looking to make cuts himself hence why it's being done onthe cheap.
If I was to try and negotiate a rise, you think settle for no less than promises and figures, eg. Don't settle for a "we'll review it after" type offer
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baza31
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Registered: 19th Apr 03
Location: yorkshire
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What happens if you leave , go work for company x with the rest , whoever decides on issuing tender gives it to company y , then company x folds ? Listen to your dad and stay with the council
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Jay
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Registered: 26th Sep 04
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan
A pretty similar thing has just happened to my mother in law, she works for the council as a care worker.
They recently decided that she had to resign and change to another company they had set up.
I urged her to seek legal advice, but she didn't!
Ill be interested to see what happens here, as I believe shes been well and truly mugged off!
Same with my father in law, took him out of one care home and moved him to another completely new contract etc same pay though, it was either that or redundancy.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
If I was to try and negotiate a rise, you think settle for no less than promises and figures, eg. Don't settle for a "we'll review it after" type offer
Of course. Review at a later date is a mug off.
I think you're in a very good position, not going blow smoke up your arse  but you're experienced and fairly presentable but what is the clincher for me is that you've no mortgage or kids so you can look at this situation differently.
One of the over-riding factors for me when I left 12 years of comfortable education sector was that I'd never actually be homeless on the street or watching my offspring starve. What's the worst that can happen? You need to go work for company Y because they got the contract instead? If you're as talented as you say in here then they'll snap you up.
Or play it safe. Depends on your balls. If you go in there not worried about going hungry you might come out the other side doing better than if you fag about protecting your ability to purchase helicopter parts.
[Edited on 12-06-2013 by Ian]
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Skinz
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Registered: 15th May 03
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If it was me leading the new company I'd offer you more money to come over and then sack you for being a twat.
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pow
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 06
Location: Hazlemere, Buckinghamshire
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You won't get a rise, they aren't gunna fight to keep you
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3CorsaMeal
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Registered: 11th Apr 02
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Sounds a massive stitch up to me, i would stay in sit until they make you redundant and give you some money. Then find a different job altogether or even risk starting your own small business that you enjoy.
imo they are just trying to lessen the redundancy payouts they would have to make.
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Rob_Quads
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: southampton
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The loss of 12 years worth of redundancy is a big risk to be taking IMO. You could always say to them you are happy to move over to the private company but that it includes a minimum redundancy equal to that you have already built up.
[Edited on 13-06-2013 by Rob_Quads]
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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I wouldnt even consider voluntarily leavign a company with 12 years service in the bag. I wont leave vf despite wanting to as i have 6 years so leavign and forfeiting 12 years in mental
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Quads
The loss of 12 years worth of redundancy is a big risk to be taking IMO. You could always say to them you are happy to move over to the private company but that it includes a minimum redundancy equal to that you have already built up.
[Edited on 13-06-2013 by Rob_Quads]
you could ask that your 12 years service be transferred to the new MBO co (unlikely though) but if they do go tits up they wont have a govt behind them to pay staff off
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Robbo
Member
Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
quote:
Originally posted by Gaz
I'm pretty sure "Poaching" staff is illegal
Not at all, especially as they're being asked nicely to do it. Its all completely up to the individuals who assuming their contracts of employment allow it, are free to leave and do whatever.
this, especially given this is a potential MBO
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VrsTurbo
Premium Member
Registered: 8th Jun 10
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Quads
The loss of 12 years worth of redundancy is a big risk to be taking IMO. You could always say to them you are happy to move over to the private company but that it includes a minimum redundancy equal to that you have already built up.
[Edited on 13-06-2013 by Rob_Quads]
Agree with this in the long term its not a big payout for them to do. I worked it out on you being 30 being made redundant in july and having worked for 12 years and earn 400per week. equate to around 4k redundancy. obviously changes with a longer term. How long would 4-5k last and could you secure a job in the time it takes to whittle down that money.
Your bills should be low as you live with your parents. so that 4-5k could potentially stretch 4-5months. Its a risk both ways.
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Robbo
Member
Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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oh yeah, i forgot govts only pay statutory and not a proper redundancy amount in that case fuck it, £4k is nothing (unless you still live with your parents in which case you are of CHUMP)
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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according to our redundancy calc its more like 7/8k, however I believe people who have been made redundant have negotiated better packages.
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3CorsaMeal
Member
Registered: 11th Apr 02
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From now on, i'd 100% go for dumps in the toilets and not flush it away, even better if you can switch loo's to wipe your bum, so one toilet has a nice fresh turd in it and no paper.
people will be amazed about things like this.
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Robbo
Member
Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
according to our redundancy calc its more like 7/8k, however I believe people who have been made redundant have negotiated better packages.
that being the case then probably worth holding out for, or at least not throwing away
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VrsTurbo
Premium Member
Registered: 8th Jun 10
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
according to our redundancy calc its more like 7/8k, however I believe people who have been made redundant have negotiated better packages.
Have you used this one?
https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-redundancy-pay
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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No, we have been given our own spreadsheet to work it out on.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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Think my ultimatium is going to be to keep me on board is going to be either give me the equivalent money redundancy, honour my redundancy period, or some other incentive via wage increase.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
according to our redundancy calc its more like 7/8k, however I believe people who have been made redundant have negotiated better packages.
VR is normally better.
I got just over twice my statutory figure because it was voluntary.
I would think they'd have to do that first and re-deploy etc. before going CR and that sort of low offer.
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Carl
Member
Registered: 9th May 04
Location: Jimmy Bennett's la la land.
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As most have said, stay in the job UNLESS they off you a really good deal that will make the risk seem more worth it. That would be after carefully looking at the plans they have and how likely they are to pulling it off, surely running a private company turning a big enough profit to survive is miles off running at no loss?!
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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Yeah I imagine so. We kinda do make a profit at the moment but as we aren't allowed to keep it it normally just gets blown on new pcs and laptops.
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