Tom
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Villas Boas the latest manager to float this idea, after many others have said it (and been shot down) previously. If they were to start in the conference divisions I can't see any issue with it personally and I think it would benefit the national team greatly as suggested by AVB. Obviously it'd also massively benefit PL teams who chose to field a B team too, I'm all for it. *zips up flame suit and waits for Nath, Johnny J et all to breath fire*
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/131971.html
Chelsea manager Andre Villas-Boas has called for feeder clubs to be admitted to the lower leagues to help provide the "missing link" in English football's development of top young talent.
With highly-rated Chelsea youngster Josh McEachran sent out on loan to Swansea to gain valuable experience, Villas-Boas said he believed the academy system and the "not competitive" reserve team league currently in place in England do not prepare young footballers for the transition to the first team.
Instead, the Portuguese manager would like to see the introduction of the feeder club model seen in Spain, where the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona have 'B' teams competing in the second tier.
There has not been a significant graduate from Chelsea's youth set-up, despite heavy investment, since John Terry's emergence more than ten years ago, whereas at Barcelona, Pep Guardiola has given first-team debuts to 25 players who have been promoted from the club's feeder team since he took over as manager in 2008.
Asked why there was such a big disparity, Villa-Boas told The Independent: "Because the gap between the reserve team and the first team is immense here. Barcelona 'B' play in the equivalent of the Championship. If the European model is applied in England, it could be tested. The reserve team serves the first team, but it doesn't serve the progression of talent coming through.
"It (buying a feeder club) could be a solution. There is more of a cultural identity [with the parent club] if it's called a 'B' team. It's the same name, the same environment. If it's a feeder club, I couldn't call a player up to my team until the transfer window opens.
Villas-Boas added: "The youth development system in England is not right, in my belief. There is plenty of effort and talks to get it right but in my opinion it is not. The reserve team league is not competitive. The youth levels are not competitive enough. The FA Youth Cup: does it favour talent or competition?
"In my opinion there is a missing link between age groups in all competitions. There should be national championships played between teams from around the country. The older ones should play nationally. The younger ones should play regionally. You promote more talent and competitiveness and it is that which generates talent and willingness to drive.
"What happens in Barcelona 'B' is a good model in terms of competitions. If the talent is playing in [a feeder club] in a competitive league you can call up players, There is immediate identification by the players with the process you're trying to implement in your first team. And it could be a great benefit because you don't have to work with a 26-man squad, but a 19-man squad and just recall the best young guys. If Ryan [Bertrand, who has had seven loan periods] and Josh [McEachran] could make the jump from Championship to Premiership every week, their involvement would be better."
However, Villas-Boas did declare that a new batch of talent was emerging from Chelsea's youth team, which won the FA Youth Cup in 2010 for the first time since 1961.
Villas-Boas said: "They are coming. They are coming. There's a generation coming. I think so. I believe so."
And the Blues boss wants all his loan players to flourish at the clubs they have been sent to, telling them it is not good enough for them to return to Stamford Bridge having failed to establish themselves elsewhere.
As well as McEachran, Patrick van Aanholt and Gael Kakuta were farmed out again this week, moving to Vitesse Arnhem and Dijon, respectively. The latter two are at their second loan clubs this season, having made just a handful of appearances each at Wigan and Bolton.
Villas-Boas said: "If they're unable to triumph over there, it can't just be a manager's decision. They have to show they are capable of triumphing in a difficult environment. It is never a good option if you come back early - it means something went wrong."
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Steve
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Sounds good, whats the arguments against it?
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Tom
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Sounds good, whats the arguments against it?
Really?
Ask anyone who supports a team that's not currently playing in the top flight. I'm sure they'll be able to answer that much more passionately than I can.
[Edited on 20-01-2012 by Tom]
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Steve
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Yeah see what you mean now, was really only looking at it from a prem sides point of view
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Hammer
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I would love, for just now anyway, for Celtic to have a 'B' side in the bottom tier of Scottish football.
I can see very few 'cons'. The exposure will be incredible for the lower league sides, gate receipts will increase, there would be no doubt a TV deal, youth players would get blooded in competitive football, the spotlight would be on these teams which you very if ever see and the profile of the entire league structure increases.
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Tom
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Agree with all of that Hammer, I reckon it's more viable in Scotland due to the smaller league structure.
I imagine people like Warnock etc will be out in force to have a dig at Boas for this but it makes a hell of alot of sense.
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Ben J
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Arsenal have been playing their "B" team in PL for last 6 years tbh.
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JonnyJ
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No no no no no no no no no no no no.
No.
What a fucking stupid idea. One club. One entity.
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Russ
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
No no no no no no no no no no no no.
No.
What a fucking stupid idea. One club. One entity.
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Cavey
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Start them at the very bottom and let them work their way up if they want it to happen, same as having the scots joining
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JonnyJ
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Was on my phone so I'll give a more in depth answer now.
Anyone who thinks this would be a great idea with no drawbacks is clearly an utter fool. England has one of the strongest league structures in the world. You wont find the same level of quality at the 5th tier in any other country. Proper clubs with proper fans and you want to chuck a "b" team in amongst that lot? This isnt a 2 bit league structure like scotland or spain where anything below the top flight may as well not exist and any "fans" of clubs lower down are just 2CW of Barca/Madrid/Celtic/Rangers.
So what would you do with them should they be promoted? Can they be promoted? If not then that completely takes away the integrity of the league, the team that wins the league should go up, simple. If they can then presumably they could end up playing their A team, again compromising the integrity of the league.
Why the fuck should we have to sacrifice the integrity of our leagues for the sake of a few premiership clubs? We've been fighting to get our league status back for 8 years now, something which means more than just money and you're telling me now that your just going to dump a load of premiership stars in our league, potentially scuppering any chances we have of getting out of there? I swear fans of top flight clubs are so blinkered they wouldnt have a fucking clue what its even like at conference level, probably even championship level, its worrying.
What exactly is wrong with the reserve league? This isnt spain, where the teams in the 2nd/3rd tiers still play on lovely pitches all year round against teams that arent competitive. You really want to stick your young star players, on a mud bath at Hayes & Yeading on a tuesday night in January? Good luck. I bet you'll be the first to complain when a postman snaps yours stars legs. It would completely ruin their development. Its so hard for us to blood youngsters at our level because they get battered off the ball and you want to pit your silky skilled winger against some of the brutes at that level?
Theres a reason its called the Great 92 and the conference is fast filling with ex league sides too who get fantastic attendances. Dont fuck around with it. What we have in England is special. Its bad enough we already have shit protest clubs like FCUM ruining it.
As for a TV deal  Get fucked. Its bad enough with the one we have now which means I've got to travel to Luton on a friday night from York. I wish we didnt have one. Who watches reserve football anyway? We'd get similar to what we have now, fuck all money for fuck loads of problems.
I've got an idea though, why dont we create 4 new random teams, give them all 100 billion quid and stick them in the premiership, that sounds like fun, think of the exposure  Think how much of a force it would make england in europe And think of how we can all laugh at the teams who would have made a CL spot but now have to cope with mid table prem mediocrity. Sounds like a plan to me 
[Edited on 20-01-2012 by JonnyJ]
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JonnyJ
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quote:
Originally posted by Cavey
Start them at the very bottom and let them work their way up if they want it to happen, same as having the scots joining
Again No. What happens when they (god forbid) get in the league and take part in the FA and League cup and draw thier A team? Or do we have to fuck around with those now and have seeded draws?
This is such a terrible idea its laughable. No surprise its championed by a foreigner who has no idea about the history and heritage of the english game.
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mwg
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AVB done next to fuck all apart from be no.2 to Mourinho and thinks he's the big shot now.
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Cavey
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It'll never happen anyway
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Conway563
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
England has one of the strongest league structures in the world. You wont find the same level of quality at the 5th tier in any other country. Proper clubs with proper fans and you want to chuck a "b" team in amongst that lot? This isnt a 2 bit league structure like scotland or spain where anything below the top flight may as well not exist and any "fans" of clubs lower down are just 2CW of Barca/Madrid/Celtic/Rangers.
All that's needed to be said really
If you want your players to play in the championship or below send them out on loan
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Nath
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I've not read the posts but I agree with everything JJ has said.
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JonnyJ
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quote:
Originally posted by Conway563
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
England has one of the strongest league structures in the world. You wont find the same level of quality at the 5th tier in any other country. Proper clubs with proper fans and you want to chuck a "b" team in amongst that lot? This isnt a 2 bit league structure like scotland or spain where anything below the top flight may as well not exist and any "fans" of clubs lower down are just 2CW of Barca/Madrid/Celtic/Rangers.
All that's needed to be said really
If you want your players to play in the championship or below send them out on loan
This. And also another very good point you made there Joe, clubs at lower levels thrive on the loan system, we cant afford to go out and buy players or run massive development centres. Clubs at the top level are in a privledged position and they should be obliged to use that position to help out those below them. You bring in these B teams and that takes a massive hit too. Clubs will get less and less comptetative and these B teams would surge through and you'd end up with a joke of a 2nd/3rd flight filled with "Aston Villa B, Man Utd B, Tottenham B" How can anyone think that is good for the english game? I suppose you've long since forgotten about the what a proud heritage our league system has? Ignorant fuckers.
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JonnyJ
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quote:
Originally posted by Cavey
It'll never happen anyway
Oh i know it wont, because I'd be the first down to Soho Square with a fucking rifle if it did. Just informing the uninformed.
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JonnyJ
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quote:
Originally posted by mwg
AVB done next to fuck all apart from be no.2 to Mourinho and thinks he's the big shot now.
Hes not even that Fucking pretender Hope he gets sacked now. And then run over. By a conference team bus.
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JonnyJ
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quote:
Originally posted by Nath
I've not read the posts but I agree with everything JJ has said.
Thats because you are a football fan Nath. You follow your club up and down the leagues and across the country, in the best league structure in the world. Its impossible to disagree if you do that.
Its no surprise the ones thinking its a good idea in this thread are either:
A: Fan of a top 8 premiership team
B: Fan of a scottish team which doesnt have a league structure, just two teams and "the rest"
C: Steve
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Tom
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Very well argued (if a little ott in some cases!) points Jonny. I wouldn't want to ruin the integrity of the lower leagues and it possibly appears more appealing at first glance than after some more thought. The reserve league is a problem though, and even with the new next gen series there's just a general lack of frequent, competitive games for the players once they are too good for the u-18's league. You are right though, it's not the lower league teams fault, not sure what the answer is in that respect, loans work to a degree but it's difficult getting the players you want developed in to the right clubs.
I'll hold my hands up and admit I am ignorant to the lower leagues and how brutal some of the players are/the issues you face as fans etc, I wouldn't want the PL clubs to detract from the competition and I suppose 'B' teams would be unfairly well backed.
Have a sit down
[Edited on 20-01-2012 by Tom]
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chrisritch
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Fucking stupid idea. Our league structure works because it is special. If this were to happen we would just become a 'me too' country and English football would lose the edge it has imo
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JonnyJ
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I just have extremely strong views on stuff like this Tom Sorry if it was a little OTT, If you knew me in person and this topic came up in discussion you would see how animated i get
With regards to problems re competitivness in the reserve leagues, aye, im sure it is a problem and thats certainly not one that can be solved by a quick fix. You'd think that the chance to impress and get a game for your club would be all the edge you need to make players competative.
Maybe the problem isnt the league, maybe its the fact that theres players in these league that know they just arent going to get a game for their team, because they can just swan off and sign someone for £30m quid. I imagine its pretty demoralising when your playing your 3rd season in a row in the reserves and you just dont look like getting anywhere.
So maybe squad size should be limited so that only the very fringe players, ones that are likely to make the first team cut are playing. Im not sure really. I just know B teams are not the answer. Not for England.
Again apologies for ranting and raving
[Edited on 20-01-2012 by JonnyJ]
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mwg
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
quote:
Originally posted by mwg
AVB done next to fuck all apart from be no.2 to Mourinho and thinks he's the big shot now.
Hes not even that Fucking pretender Hope he gets sacked now. And then run over. By a conference team bus.
He was Mourinhos No.2 wasn't he? Or was he lower than that?
Jonny is definitely going mad waving his arms around now
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JonnyJ
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Oh i dunno, i thought you was referring to the fact he managed porto, then got the chelsea job so saw himself as a bit of a mourinho, certainly how the press portrayed him when he came here anyway.
Arms all over the shop mate.
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