Sam
Moderator
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Registered: 24th Dec 99
Location: West Midlands
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That plane looks like it has lowered suspension...
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Cybermonkey
Member
Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
do some planes not still have droops on the front of the wings for better lift?
you mean leading edge slats  these automatically retract with 5degrees or more of flaps.
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Cybermonkey
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Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
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quote:
Originally posted by GSiSteve
normal procedure is 5 degree flap at take off
really depends on aircraft, weather conditions, weight, runway, outside air temperature, runway obstructions etc etc
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey24
quote:
Originally posted by GSiSteve
normal procedure is 5 degree flap at take off
really depends on aircraft, weather conditions, weight, runway, outside air temperature, runway obstructions etc etc
i shouldve said under ideal conditions
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Sam
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Premium Member
Registered: 24th Dec 99
Location: West Midlands
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 Dave
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Siberia
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Registered: 9th Oct 03
Location: Leprechaun Land Drives : Zafira GSI
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quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey24
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
do some planes not still have droops on the front of the wings for better lift?
you mean leading edge slats these automatically retract with 5degrees or more of flaps.
yes there on the leading edge... probably called slats on modern airplanes.
older airplanes i.e a Trident they were called droops.
they caused one to crash back in the 70's in Stains in the uk were the droops were raised before the plane had enough altitude.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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quote:
Originally posted by Sam
Dave
sam obviously doesnt know who i am
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Black Corsa SRi
Member
Registered: 25th May 02
Location: ---Stockport---- Drives: Pug 206 Roland Garros
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quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey24
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
do some planes not still have droops on the front of the wings for better lift?
you mean leading edge slats these automatically retract with 5degrees or more of flaps.
they dont mate, they are mostly used for landing, aincrease the lift by re-energising the boundary layer so tat you can fly slower on approach so you gonna have a lot more than 5 flaps then and they tend to increase their deployment with increased angle of flaps anyway. Know this for a fact and its a pain in the arse when we have fan cowls open on engines and need deploy flaps cause they catch on most aircraft on full deployment (the slats i mean not flaps) so u cant do it!
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Black Corsa SRi
Member
Registered: 25th May 02
Location: ---Stockport---- Drives: Pug 206 Roland Garros
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quote:
Originally posted by GSiSteve
thats wot we're talking about 
wrong sib' is right!
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nickyboy01
Member
Registered: 10th Sep 03
Location: Oxford-ish
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I tried a take off from Bristol in a 747 but runway wasnt long enough, ended up making it a few hundred yards longer with my wheels
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Siberia
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Registered: 9th Oct 03
Location: Leprechaun Land Drives : Zafira GSI
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quote:
Originally posted by Black Corsa SRi
quote:
Originally posted by GSiSteve
thats wot we're talking about
wrong sib' is right!
thank you!
no doubt they will be back to tell us how wrong we are
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N22CK_C
Member
Registered: 13th Jul 04
Location: Teesside
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey24
TTT
wats that about??
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Cybermonkey
Member
Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by N1C4T3N
quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey24
TTT
wats that about??
To The Top
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Cybermonkey
Member
Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Black Corsa SRi
quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey24
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
do some planes not still have droops on the front of the wings for better lift?
you mean leading edge slats these automatically retract with 5degrees or more of flaps.
they dont mate, they are mostly used for landing, aincrease the lift by re-energising the boundary layer so tat you can fly slower on approach so you gonna have a lot more than 5 flaps then and they tend to increase their deployment with increased angle of flaps anyway. Know this for a fact and its a pain in the arse when we have fan cowls open on engines and need deploy flaps cause they catch on most aircraft on full deployment (the slats i mean not flaps) so u cant do it!
 A pilot cannot deply the leading edge slats manually?? its all controlled from the main flap lever near the throttle controls Their level of deployment varies on what degree of flaps you select, like you said, but i didnt think modern boeings and airbus' had the option of deploying them regardless of what position the flaps are in. Surely disrupting the air flow at the leading edge of the wing alone will put enormous stress on the wing itself or am i wrong 
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Cybermonkey
Member
Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by nickyboy01
I tried a take off from Bristol in a 747 but runway wasnt long enough, ended up making it a few hundred yards longer with my wheels
Try with 10% of fuel and no passengers/cargo and you may be able to get her up in the air, as long as you are rotating at the right speed.
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Cybermonkey
Member
Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Sam
Dave
Hey Sam!!! long time no speak! I am in auz as you have probably guessed! how are you?
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Cybermonkey
Member
Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey24
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
do some planes not still have droops on the front of the wings for better lift?
you mean leading edge slats these automatically retract with 5degrees or more of flaps.
yes there on the leading edge... probably called slats on modern airplanes.
older airplanes i.e a Trident they were called droops.
they caused one to crash back in the 70's in Stains in the uk were the droops were raised before the plane had enough altitude.
I know of that incident. Nothing the pilot could have done really. The Trident2/3 was so hideously under-powered anyway, they never stood a chance if that situation happened. The wing design, partly designed by my grandfather was very unique in that it needed a new design to work well. Unfortunately, the engineers at BAe Hatfield didnt really think about problems resulting from mechanical failure. The crash was found by 2 kids, and there were human bodies strewn all over the place.
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Cybermonkey
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Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
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oh, and the Trident 3 was retro-fitted with a rocket booster engine to help take off performance. Also, many pilots and engineers who worked on the trident said it only took off because of the curvature of the earth
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Siberia
Member
Registered: 9th Oct 03
Location: Leprechaun Land Drives : Zafira GSI
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey24
they dont mate, they are mostly used for landing, aincrease the lift by re-energising the boundary layer so tat you can fly slower on approach so you gonna have a lot more than 5 flaps then and they tend to increase their deployment with increased angle of flaps anyway. Know this for a fact and its a pain in the arse when we have fan cowls open on engines and need deploy flaps cause they catch on most aircraft on full deployment (the slats i mean not flaps) so u cant do it!
A pilot cannot deply the leading edge slats manually?? its all controlled from the main flap lever near the throttle controls Their level of deployment varies on what degree of flaps you select, like you said, but i didnt think modern boeings and airbus' had the option of deploying them regardless of what position the flaps are in. Surely disrupting the air flow at the leading edge of the wing alone will put enormous stress on the wing itself or am i wrong
I'm sure you seen that documentry thing 'Black Box' ?..... there was an episode called 'A Pilots Blame'... that stains crash was on it and they said that the 'droop' were raised to soon causing the plane to go a bit mental.
One of the planes safety features (antistall) kicked in an kept pushing the contoll yoke forward to keep the nose down... but the pilots thought this was a faulty stick push action so over rode the system.
in turn the nose came up the plane went into a stall and down she went.
Maybe i'm worng but i'm just going on that documentry.
also there was no CVR on that plane so all the investigation had to go on was the CDR.
they also reckon the captain may have had a heart attack at the moment the problems started
The droops are on the leading edge of the plane but there quite big sections of the wing.
i'll try and find a picture someware.
[Edited on 05-08-2004 by Siberia]
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
Originally posted by Black Corsa SRi
quote:
Originally posted by GSiSteve
thats wot we're talking about
wrong sib' is right!
thank you!
no doubt they will be back to tell us how wrong we are
no, i do not know them as "droops" only as landing edge slats, if he used the correct terminology for modern day planes then i would have known
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Siberia
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Registered: 9th Oct 03
Location: Leprechaun Land Drives : Zafira GSI
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kinda both right here.......
Discussions with BEA continued and further changes were agreed to the extent that the new model was renamed the Trident 2ER. "ER'' meant Extended Range as the new Trident would offer almost double the range of the Trident 1 models. In August 1965, BEA chose the Trident 2E (as it was then called) instead of the 1F. The Trident 2E replaced the wing leading-edge droops with slats and extended the span with Kuchemann-style tips. It had with a gross weight of 142,400lb (64,635Kg) and 11,930lb st (5,410Kgp) Spey 512 engines. BEA purchased 15 Trident 2Es and Cyprus Airways purchased 2 aircraft. Surprisingly, the largest customer of the Trident 2E was the Peoples' Republic of China, whose CAAC airline ordered 33 aircraft. (Maybe China wasn't allowed to import Boeing 727s from the USA...)
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Black Corsa SRi
Member
Registered: 25th May 02
Location: ---Stockport---- Drives: Pug 206 Roland Garros
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey24
quote:
Originally posted by Black Corsa SRi
quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey24
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
do some planes not still have droops on the front of the wings for better lift?
you mean leading edge slats these automatically retract with 5degrees or more of flaps.
they dont mate, they are mostly used for landing, aincrease the lift by re-energising the boundary layer so tat you can fly slower on approach so you gonna have a lot more than 5 flaps then and they tend to increase their deployment with increased angle of flaps anyway. Know this for a fact and its a pain in the arse when we have fan cowls open on engines and need deploy flaps cause they catch on most aircraft on full deployment (the slats i mean not flaps) so u cant do it!
A pilot cannot deply the leading edge slats manually?? its all controlled from the main flap lever near the throttle controls Their level of deployment varies on what degree of flaps you select, like you said, but i didnt think modern boeings and airbus' had the option of deploying them regardless of what position the flaps are in. Surely disrupting the air flow at the leading edge of the wing alone will put enormous stress on the wing itself or am i wrong
who said manually i never ever said manually, i said they increase with the flaps and i spent a lot of time studying to be an aircraft engineer and am now licneced so i know my stuff mate,i know these systems! tats why i said when we deploy flaps we have probs with slats and LE Slats dont disruput the airflow to a detremental affect they re-energise the boundary layer over the wing they help, not hinder and yes they do increase the higher the level of flaps, there normally 2 positions half and full deploy! Obviously deployed in the wrong situation they would but thats just he same as any other device it has to be used correcty, but i'm sorry your wrong this time
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Black Corsa SRi
Member
Registered: 25th May 02
Location: ---Stockport---- Drives: Pug 206 Roland Garros
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by GSiSteve
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
Originally posted by Black Corsa SRi
quote:
Originally posted by GSiSteve
thats wot we're talking about
wrong sib' is right!
thank you!
no doubt they will be back to tell us how wrong we are
no, i do not know them as "droops" only as landing edge slats, if he used the correct terminology for modern day planes then i would have known
very true sib it really annoys me since its my job and a company trusts me to do it right and then people who only have experience of flight sim tell me i'm wrong (C - Monkey this not aimed at u, u seem to know your stuff most of the time so dont take offence) oh and Gaz some of the best engineers dont always use the correct modern day temrinology its wat your brought up with you use,its still obvious what the are this is where flight sim knowlage falls short of real knowlage
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Cybermonkey
Member
Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Black Corsa SRi
quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey24
quote:
Originally posted by Black Corsa SRi
quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey24
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
do some planes not still have droops on the front of the wings for better lift?
you mean leading edge slats these automatically retract with 5degrees or more of flaps.
they dont mate, they are mostly used for landing, aincrease the lift by re-energising the boundary layer so tat you can fly slower on approach so you gonna have a lot more than 5 flaps then and they tend to increase their deployment with increased angle of flaps anyway. Know this for a fact and its a pain in the arse when we have fan cowls open on engines and need deploy flaps cause they catch on most aircraft on full deployment (the slats i mean not flaps) so u cant do it!
A pilot cannot deply the leading edge slats manually?? its all controlled from the main flap lever near the throttle controls Their level of deployment varies on what degree of flaps you select, like you said, but i didnt think modern boeings and airbus' had the option of deploying them regardless of what position the flaps are in. Surely disrupting the air flow at the leading edge of the wing alone will put enormous stress on the wing itself or am i wrong
who said manually i never ever said manually, i said they increase with the flaps and i spent a lot of time studying to be an aircraft engineer and am now licneced so i know my stuff mate,i know these systems! tats why i said when we deploy flaps we have probs with slats and LE Slats dont disruput the airflow to a detremental affect they re-energise the boundary layer over the wing they help, not hinder and yes they do increase the higher the level of flaps, there normally 2 positions half and full deploy! Obviously deployed in the wrong situation they would but thats just he same as any other device it has to be used correcty, but i'm sorry your wrong this time
Interesting  thanks, i have learnt something new
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Ben
Banned
Registered: 12th Jan 03
Location: West Yorkshire
User status: Offline
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its a plane
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