Adam_B
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Registered: 13th Dec 00
Location: Lancashire
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
No one else was playing Adam.
sounds familiar.
30 odd MR2s, 1 Porsche Cayman, 1 Corsa Vegas, 1 Anglesey race track. Only thing that overtook me all day was the Cayman. Wierd.
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Jules S
Premium Member
Registered: 24th Dec 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
I've stepped out slower than that. Depends how you set it up.
Turbot lift off oversteer?
For the record (cos I think its where it started) ive made some *very* experienced track gurus in WRX STIs look stupid in my time 
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Marc
Member
Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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What about Evos? No one ever mentions Evo's 
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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In the Corsa. I love how that handles. Far too understeery to call it good but if you lash it about like you hate it, its so damn snappy 
The Astra just flashes loads of dashboard lights and holds in a little mini-drift for you. Ace, if a little safe.
[Edited on 21-06-2006 by Ian]
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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Ian Read 'car is crap' (not about your corsa) Too stiff rear or too soft = crap on roads. Too stiff will cause it to slide where its too stiff, too soft will cause body roll and the shift of weight = spin. Only time I've spun a car on public roads was when I was a 17 year old kid, and my corsa suspension was standard. Did everything wrong.
Threw my car into a roundabout, felt rear go light so lifted! then as it spun whacked the brakes on
I love my gti on roundabouts - with the bilstein shocks it feels so controllable. Plenty of sideways grip and turn in, can go round them in circles are 60 mph with no understeer at all easily. If you do start getting a little understeer just a slight lift to get the front to turn in, then put power back on gently to control it again.
I was saying this to my dad last night, I drive slow on straight roads like motorways etc (due to it being fairly likely to be caught by a copper sitting with a unmarked or gun) - but gun it on national limit country twisty roads near me, with nice smooth surfaces. Obviously still way within the limit of the car, plus going round bends is more fun anyway.
I do get what Ian's point was though and it does make me laugh how everyone focuses soley on 0-60 mph, as someone who has the bottle to keep the throttle in or brake late will catch a quick car by going quicker through the bends.
[Edited on 21-06-2006 by Paul_J]
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Marc
Member
Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
User status: Offline
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Hence why I mentioned 60-100 Paul.
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Ry_B
Banned
Registered: 1st Dec 05
Location: Solihull, W Mids Drives: 45BHP beast!
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
Ian Read 'car is crap' (not about your corsa) Too stiff rear or too soft = crap on roads. Too stiff will cause it to slide where its too stiff, too soft will cause body roll and the shift of weight = spin. Only time I've spun a car on public roads was when I was a 17 year old kid, and my corsa suspension was standard. Did everything wrong.
Threw my car into a roundabout, felt rear go light so lifted! then as it spun whacked the brakes on
Just out of interest, what should you do? I know you should keep the throttle steady in corners?
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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The trick to not spinning is to not move the weight. You need as much throttle as you have traction but if you put it on too much and need to take it off again you'll unsettle the car and thats when it'll bite.
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Robin
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
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lower your car Ryan, its the only way
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Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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60-100 is irrelevant also if the driver doesn't have the balls to keep his foot on the gas, and is lifting off or braking causing understeer / a unstable car.
I remember in my 1.2 16v corsa beating a 1.6 16v corsa down a twisty, bumpy, dual carriageway.
He couldn't believe it at the bottom of the hill - but basically I just kept the throttle on all the way down, where as he kept lifting off or braking and by the time he got to the straight part I was already going quicker than him and too far ahead.
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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You did have the worlds fastest 1.2 though 
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Adam_B
Member
Registered: 13th Dec 00
Location: Lancashire
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc
What about Evos? No one ever mentions Evo's
why would an evo owner come on corsasport
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Marc
Member
Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
User status: Offline
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Shut up 
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Ry_B
Banned
Registered: 1st Dec 05
Location: Solihull, W Mids Drives: 45BHP beast!
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
The trick to not spinning is to not move the weight. You need as much throttle as you have traction but if you put it on too much and need to take it off again you'll unsettle the car and thats when it'll bite.
What about if the back end goes mid roundabout?
I know you're fucked but say if it was on a track, if the back end went light how do you correct?
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Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ry_B
quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
Ian Read 'car is crap' (not about your corsa) Too stiff rear or too soft = crap on roads. Too stiff will cause it to slide where its too stiff, too soft will cause body roll and the shift of weight = spin. Only time I've spun a car on public roads was when I was a 17 year old kid, and my corsa suspension was standard. Did everything wrong.
Threw my car into a roundabout, felt rear go light so lifted! then as it spun whacked the brakes on
Just out of interest, what should you do? I know you should keep the throttle steady in corners?
You ever watched touring cars  they get their cars completely sideways, then whack the throttle back on and it pulls the car straight again.
Basically you would feel the rear go and apply the throttle back on gently - while applying 'SLIGHT' counter steer, which as soon as you felt the car coming straight you'd cancel.
This is school boy error number 2 people do.
They go in feel the rear start to go, and apply FULL opposite lock then the front wheels grip the back stops sliding out and they haven't cancelled the lock and the car suddenly rockets the other way causing a spin the other way, or then they throw the steering wheel the other way again etc etc.
As ian said you wouldn't want to give too much throttle as it'd spin the wheels and cause understeer.
Essentially when throttle is off the car is free to do anything it likes, just even a slight bit of throttle through the wheels keeps the car in control.
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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^^ obv touring cars have v.sticky tyres which you dont. - but you get the drift.
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Robin
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
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progressive opposite lock. no sudden movements. ignore your sudden urges to brake, lift off or wang the steering one way, just calmly and slowly try to correct it. its the suddent movements which unsettle a car
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Ry_B
Banned
Registered: 1st Dec 05
Location: Solihull, W Mids Drives: 45BHP beast!
User status: Offline
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Jules S
Premium Member
Registered: 24th Dec 03
User status: Offline
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Same reason as a vx220 owner, its good banter
Good track training and knowing the limitations of your car is what needed 
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Adam_B
Member
Registered: 13th Dec 00
Location: Lancashire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ry_B
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
The trick to not spinning is to not move the weight. You need as much throttle as you have traction but if you put it on too much and need to take it off again you'll unsettle the car and thats when it'll bite.
What about if the back end goes mid roundabout?
I know you're fucked but say if it was on a track, if the back end went light how do you correct?
in a fwd car, bury the throttle somewhere in the tarmac or gravel depending how bad its gone. a lot easier said then done tho.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by Ry_B
What about if the back end goes mid roundabout?
I know you're fucked but say if it was on a track, if the back end went light how do you correct?
They don't go for no reason. If you've got space, steer in to it. If not, hold on and wait.
Depends if we're talking about going around corners fast or avoiding crashes when you get it wrong. Thats two different conversations.
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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On track one of the biggest mind fucks when coming down a long main straight into a corner is to brake hard in a straight line, then come off the brakes and onto the throttle to then turn into the corner
Obviously you feel like your going too quick and want to keep your foot on the brake or roll into the corner off the throttle - but both of these will end nasty or just a lot slower round the corner than if you go in with a bit of throttle through the wheels.
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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My dad used to race cars and so obviously learnt how to drive properly back then.
but As I grew up I always wondered how he got shit heaps like mondeo estates to go so quick round corners and stuff on the way to holidays etc.
When I was 17 I remember going around a motorway slip road that I'd looked over and seen my dad doing about 70-80 mph round, and in my corsa I couldn't get it to go over about 40-50 mph. Felt too tight.
What I was doing wrong was going into it and going shit I'm going too quick and lifting off into the corner and the car would just understeer, where as - keeping just slight throttle through the front wheels I suddenly noticed I could go much quicker and now my problem was the whole car sliding sideways
(obviously difference in where the wheels are, like a mondeo wheels from front and back will be further apart than a corsa)
This is one golden rules in getting a car to go quick - the downside is since the only thing now holding the car on the road is your throttle through the front wheels that if you lift off or brake - uh oh!
This is why its not good to try to find limits of your car on roads and save it for the track.
Goodwood was a good lesson for this as it has the longest bloody first corner.
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Jake
Member
Registered: 24th Jan 05
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Good thread. Learning quite abit from it.
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Ry_B
Banned
Registered: 1st Dec 05
Location: Solihull, W Mids Drives: 45BHP beast!
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Cheers for all the info guys
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