22B
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Registered: 9th Sep 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Butler
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by jr
quote:
Originally posted by radicalry00
C'mon, Jenson Button shouldn't be disregarded just because a new Brit has entered the lime-light.
Yes Lewis is extremely talented and the start to his season has been truely immense and better than anyone could have predicted. But unlike him, Jenson didn't get to jump straight into the seat of one of the fastest cars in F1. He's struggling at the moment due to the limitations of his car. I know a good workman should never blame his tools but in this case it's true. I have no doubt that Button would be up there with the best this year if he had taken the opportunity to go to Williams.
Don't get me wrong, I think Hamilton is a breath of fresh air to F1, especially after the loss of Schuey but Button is still capable.
[Edited on 11-06-2007 by radicalry00]
 spot on
agree with that!
Hamilton was brought up with McLaren (signed with them at 11) and unlike other drivers, he was given his first spot in one of the best teams on the grid. And to be honest, if Button was sitting in a McLaren, he would be putting in some impressive times - we know he has the skill from his win at the hungaroring (and he started from 12th place), like radicalry00 has said it's his car that is the one letting him down. Hopefully the new developments for the car are going to help him when he gets back to Europe!
Ist not true at all, If Sato can get 6th in a Super Aguri which I can only assume are using last years Honda engines, Button has no excuse. He has the car, but isnt meeting the standards. He doesnt seem focused enough in my eyes.
I see what your saying but the SUper Aguri is actually Hondas last years car, which happens to be better than this years one they have built, its not the first time sato has outscored both of them this year.
The thing with Button is when hes in a poor car which is going nowhere his head is down and he just doesnt seem interested. i feel sorry for him in a way always in the wrong place at the wrong time. Imagine he hadnt got sacked from Renault years ago, even though he beat Trulli, could have possibly got a few wins under his belt and attracted the bigger teams.
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Butler
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Registered: 2nd Jun 05
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Did he not get a better offer for this year but turned it down for Honda? Anyway, last years Honda engine better? Why would Honda give a rival team the advantage?
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Robin
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Super Aguri are using a V10 aren't they? and Honda have a V8, which makes less power and torque, and doesn't deliver it as well.
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Nath
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Aren't all V10's from last year limited to a lower RPM though to make it fair?
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Baskey
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Registered: 31st May 06
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if he was good enough Mclaren would have employed him,
just cus he plays for a shit team, dosnt mean he will turn into rooney if he gets transfered to Man u
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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Button was interviewed earlier on and said yeah Hamilton might be doing well but he's had so much backing behind him, for me that's sour grapes. Lost a lot of respect for him after that tbh it's the best start to an F1 career by any driver backed to the hilt or otherwise.
Alonso also got interviewed and said he's doing 'fine' but he's getting slices of luck. This is coming from the double world champion in the same team that would by all accounts be recieving the lions share of the teams resources and time. Making himself look petty imo.
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Butler
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by jr
quote:
Originally posted by radicalry00
C'mon, Jenson Button shouldn't be disregarded just because a new Brit has entered the lime-light.
Yes Lewis is extremely talented and the start to his season has been truely immense and better than anyone could have predicted. But unlike him, Jenson didn't get to jump straight into the seat of one of the fastest cars in F1. He's struggling at the moment due to the limitations of his car. I know a good workman should never blame his tools but in this case it's true. I have no doubt that Button would be up there with the best this year if he had taken the opportunity to go to Williams.
Don't get me wrong, I think Hamilton is a breath of fresh air to F1, especially after the loss of Schuey but Button is still capable.
[Edited on 11-06-2007 by radicalry00]
spot on
agree with that!
Hamilton was brought up with McLaren (signed with them at 11) and unlike other drivers, he was given his first spot in one of the best teams on the grid. And to be honest, if Button was sitting in a McLaren, he would be putting in some impressive times - we know he has the skill from his win at the hungaroring (and he started from 12th place), like radicalry00 has said it's his car that is the one letting him down. Hopefully the new developments for the car are going to help him when he gets back to Europe!
Ist not true at all, If Sato can get 6th in a Super Aguri which I can only assume are using last years Honda engines, Button has no excuse. He has the car, but isnt meeting the standards. He doesnt seem focused enough in my eyes.
Sorry, but thats a load of bull - it's clear as daylight that hondas previous car (2006, which Super Aguri are using) is so much better than the RA-107, you can see that it has no pace on the RA-106.
How do you explain the fact that last year Button was finishing mostly in the top 5 or just out of, and this year he has yet to step into the top 10? Plus Barrichello isn't exactly shit off a shovel this year unlike last - again he was getting well into the top 10 on majority of the races and again he's struggling to get into top 10 this year - are you saying that both drivers have lost there skill?  
Button has clearly been let down this year by his car, they have gone backwards in terms of development - hopefully the new parts that get fitted for the european leg will see him getting back into the top 10
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Butler
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I don't think barrichello was ever all that, he like alot of drivers only made a name for himself in a good car. Now all Button does is blame the car, im not saying they have lost their skill. Im saying they arent on par with others. If you stuck Button in a Mclaren yes he might get points, but stick Hamilton in a Honda, and you will probably find he will do alot better.
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammer
Button was interviewed earlier on and said yeah Hamilton might be doing well but he's had so much backing behind him, for me that's sour grapes. Lost a lot of respect for him after that tbh it's the best start to an F1 career by any driver backed to the hilt or otherwise.
Alonso also got interviewed and said he's doing 'fine' but he's getting slices of luck. This is coming from the double world champion in the same team that would by all accounts be recieving the lions share of the teams resources and time. Making himself look petty imo.
Fact is, Hamilton has had a lot of backing and like i said was signed to McLaren at 11. There's very few drivers that gets that amount of support early on in their career and it's going to piss a lot of drivers off who have had to work extremely hard to get to where they are (without at big F1 team supporting them), unlike Hamilton who has been fed F1 in his early days of karting.
I have a lot of respect for Hamilton and he's doing well for our country, but he hasn't got a patch on the older drivers who have had to work extremely hard working there way up the F1 team ladder to get to where they are......
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
I have a lot of respect for Hamilton and he's doing well for our country, but he hasn't got a patch on the older drivers who have had to work extremely hard working there way up the F1 team ladder to get to where they are......
I don't understand how you can he's not a patch on other people tbh, was he supposed to turn down the opportunities he's had?
Alonso is the double World Champion and Hamilton has made him look average this year in the same team.
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22B
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Registered: 9th Sep 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Baskey
if he was good enough Mclaren would have employed him,
just cus he plays for a shit team, dosnt mean he will turn into rooney if he gets transfered to Man u
He has shown hes is a capable of being a race winner, even though he has only won 1 race, he smooth and can keep up with the best of them, even put the Honda on pole position a couple of times last year. Mclaren wouldnt employ him I doubt as he had already signed a big deal with Honda, thinking Honda would be genuine championship contenders so he was very happy at the time.
This years Honda is an awful car, must be so humiliating seeing the ' B ' team consistently beating the works team
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Butler
I don't think barrichello was ever all that, he like alot of drivers only made a name for himself in a good car. Now all Button does is blame the car, im not saying they have lost their skill. Im saying they arent on par with others. If you stuck Button in a Mclaren yes he might get points, but stick Hamilton in a Honda, and you will probably find he will do alot better.
Barrichello not all that?! WTF?
He was constantly 2nd to Schu in his last few years at Ferrari (apart from his last season when Ferrari struggled with the "one type change" rule) and the only reason he was 2nd was because Ross Brawn said so.
Now he's been with honda he's struggling with a car, like Button too, that is, lets be honest, a pile of toss.
I still don't understand why you've brushed the fact that Button and Barrichello were doing a lot better last year, yet this year both are struggling to put a respectable times in? Both of them certainly haven't lost the skills and regulation changes aren't any harder than last year....so it only leaves the car, which has been slated by both Mark Blundell and Martin Brundle (about the only two people worth listening to out of ITV's commenting team)
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Robin
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Registered: 7th Jan 04
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Bad workman blames his tools.
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin
Bad workman blames his tools.
that's what they say, but you have to be completly blind not to see that RA-107 is a pile of toss this year and Honda have gone completly backwards. If button had been shit last season and the season before then i would agree, but the fact that he had a brilliant last season shows that he has the skills. If honda had kept the RA-106 he probably would still be in the top 5.....
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Butler
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Registered: 2nd Jun 05
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin
Bad workman blames his tools.
Exactly what I think
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Robin
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I agree it's not a good car this year, but if they were that good, it wouldn't matter.
A lot can be said for giving someone a better car, they theoretically shoulc get a quicker time, but there's a lot of skill involved in it too, and I believe Hamilton has it, or he wouldn't be quicker than the world champion in the last 2 races, in the same car.
A good driver should be able to set a good time whatever the car, I know the difference between a good car and a not so good car in F1 can be huge, but I think if you put Button in a McLaren, he'd still be second best to Hamilton, but then, we'll probably never know.
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Dom
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammer
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
I have a lot of respect for Hamilton and he's doing well for our country, but he hasn't got a patch on the older drivers who have had to work extremely hard working there way up the F1 team ladder to get to where they are......
I don't understand how you can he's not a patch on other people tbh, was he supposed to turn down the opportunities he's had?
Alonso is the double World Champion and Hamilton has made him look average this year in the same team.
I completly agree that you'd have to be insane to give up the opportunity that Hamilton was given but he has been moulded into McLaren, there tatics, way of thinking, there car etc etc Alonso has been dumped into a car that is completly new to him and drives completly differently to his old renault - having to adjust to the new tyre manufacturer (from last years michelin with renault), the hard/soft tyre regulation and the car. Hamilton doesn't know any different.
Like i said, i still respect Hamilton and he does have some serious driver ability, but i think if you shoved him into another Team he wouldn't be doing so well and if Alonso was still with Renualt he would be showing Hamilton a thing or two.
Eitherway, i think this new "breed" of driver is how it's going to happen in the future, with teams moulding drivers from an early age etc....
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Dom
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin
I agree it's not a good car this year, but if they were that good, it wouldn't matter.
A lot can be said for giving someone a better car, they theoretically shoulc get a quicker time, but there's a lot of skill involved in it too, and I believe Hamilton has it, or he wouldn't be quicker than the world champion in the last 2 races, in the same car.
A good driver should be able to set a good time whatever the car, I know the difference between a good car and a not so good car in F1 can be huge, but I think if you put Button in a McLaren, he'd still be second best to Hamilton, but then, we'll probably never know.
to be honest robin, i think everyone on the "we love Hamilton" bandwagon has over looked the fact that he as been moulded into McLaren with him not knowing any difference, where as other drivers are having to relearn (changing driving styles to suit the car etc).
But like you say, no one will know whether Button would be faster in a McLaren or if Hamilton could still take the Honda RA-107 to a pole finish (very unlikely).....
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Robin
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This is true, if he went to a different team and had to adjust to a different car, chances are he'd struggle, unless it is 100% driving talent and he can just drive better than anyone else
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Dom
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin
This is true, if he went to a different team and had to adjust to a different car, chances are he'd struggle, unless it is 100% driving talent and he can just drive better than anyone else
Hamilton could well be the next Ayrton Senna, but we won't find out until he changes team and i can't see McLaren letting go of him anytime soon - not with the amount of money and time they've pour into pruning him to McLaren
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Hammer
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Moulded into a car he had never driven in race conditions and stuck it on the podium in every circuit he has been on to lead the drivers championship.
It's quite remarkable actually but as per usual in this country he'll be lauded by most and he'll have others trying to take him down a peg or two. Michael Schumacher was a cheating cunt at times but he was a winner and the Germans loved him for it.
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Nick-S
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quote:
Originally posted by Nath
Aren't all V10's from last year limited to a lower RPM though to make it fair?
yes 
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Tiesto
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A few weeks back he called the back markers "monkeys" and tbh after that comment my respect for him vanished
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Daimo B
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I just think the press should leave him to do his job that he's been training to do all his life...
Hamilton is a breath of fresh air for F1 for the UK. British guy in a british car and team.
I don't think Canada was very hard for him. He consistantly left Heidfield after the pace car and had a much quicker pace. But Alonso was consistantly quicker all weekend.
But, with Canada you have to keep it on the track, most others didn't, Lewis did and for that hats off to him.
As said, I'll be interested to see him in the wet, but judging his GP2 racing, I don't think he'll have any more issues at all.
In fact, i've been watching him since F3 and he was superb then. HE will be a world champion. I dont think it'll be this year, but he will.
As for writing off Button, he still wants it IMO, just hasn't got the equipment. Rubens and Button will be competitive again, just not yet. I also don't think Button would have been better off going to Williams either. Don't forget, Honda is very much into Motorsport, and its a factory team, unlike Williams, Super Aguri etc... They will get on the pace again, I just don't think it will be with this car.
The other man to watch for is Davidson. I've been watching him, and although in-experienced in an F1 car, he's not doing bad. He's just about on par with Sato, yet Satos raced over 75 F1 races.......... I think he gets ignored and he shouldn't be.
Hamiltons awesome, but he's been gromed into that role.
Valentino Rossi started racing Pocket Bikes at 4 years of age. If you want your kids in motorsport, these days, thats the time you need to get them started.
My little boy (if i ever have one) will be given all the opportunities with Karting or Pocket Bikes should they be into it (but seeing as MS is on all weekend in my house, I should imagine they would ).
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Hammer
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http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=471465&CPID=583&clid=3715&lid=4161&title=McLaren+favour+Hamilton+-+Alonso
Who's the guy with the £10 million contract here and the half a million one 
The backlash Hamilton's recieving is solely based on jealousy and sour grapes, the double world champion is being made to look stupid by a talented rookie and has spat the dummy.
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