John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
|
They aren't held because they are muslim 
They are held because they are dirty terrorists, they just happen to be muslim as well.
|
willay
Moderator
Organiser: South East, National Events
Premium Member
Registered: 10th Nov 02
Location: Roydon, Essex
User status: Offline
|
very good point, how can you say R&R has nothing to do with this
|
John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
|
It's to do with it because that's why the clowns are bombing people, it's got nothing to do with why they are detained or what treatment they receive, hence nothing to do with this thread.
|
willay
Moderator
Organiser: South East, National Events
Premium Member
Registered: 10th Nov 02
Location: Roydon, Essex
User status: Offline
|
the torture is a result of terrorist activities, ie. bombing shit. Dont remember hearing about anyone else getting tortured for crimes, do you John?
|
John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
|
That's not my point.
My point is they aren't being detained for being Muslim.
They blow people up because of Muslim beliefs then are detained because of their actions.
Do you think the Americans wouldn't do exactly the same to a white american christian?
|
Sam
Moderator
Premium Member
Registered: 24th Dec 99
Location: West Midlands
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by John
They aren't held because they are muslim
They are held because they are dirty terrorists, they just happen to be muslim as well.
Yes and it's their religion which is the motivating factor of their crimes, not just a 'coincidence', hence why race and well more specifically religion has EVERYTHING to do with this thread.
|
Daimo B
Member
Registered: 20th Mar 00
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sam
Race and religion has EVERYTHING to do with THIS thread.
Since 2001, who was held at the Bay? Mostly detainees from Afghanistan. What religion were they? Muslim.
[Edited on 25-08-2009 by Sam]
Why are you bringing race and religion into a topic about TORTURE and if it really is torture. Did you miss the whole sentance about "who cares if they are white, black, pink, brown, asain, arabic"
Think about what your saying. And its not only people your claiming were held at the Bay. there are many US CITIZENS held there also, along with other nationalities.
This issue is about extracting information in terms of the countries defence. Sure, lets not interrogate the, sure, please bring another 9/11 to the US soil why don't you......
The torture is on 12 individuals, who are from the area you mentioned, but then the other in-mates are hardcore nutters, but not intent on blowing up the United States. The people being "tortured" (if you can call it that), are to extract information about the terrorist orgenisations who are at war with America.
Sam, go do some research first.
And don't you dare say im racist or some other tosh, my mother is currently dating an arabic man, and I have no problems with them.
Do you see people from the UAE states detained? They are also arabic and muslims...... No, its people who have committed war crimes.
[Edited on 25-08-2009 by VXR]
|
willay
Moderator
Organiser: South East, National Events
Premium Member
Registered: 10th Nov 02
Location: Roydon, Essex
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by John
Do you think the Americans wouldn't do exactly the same to a white american christian?
No I dont think they would do it to a white american who bombed aload of people
|
John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sam
quote:
Originally posted by John
They aren't held because they are muslim
They are held because they are dirty terrorists, they just happen to be muslim as well.
Yes and it's their religion which is the motivating factor of their crimes, not just a 'coincidence', hence why race and well more specifically religion has EVERYTHING to do with this thread.
It doesn't at all, you aren't getting it.
We are discussing torture.
Them being tortured has absolutely nothing to do with what colour or religion they are.
|
Daimo B
Member
Registered: 20th Mar 00
User status: Offline
|
In fact, chees Sam for de-railing this thread in the worst possible way.
It was a debate about whether the torture really is torture.
You ahve now brought a race argument into it.
Next word, racisim. Seems Sam wants to discuss this topic, as my original topic seems to have been completly missed.
|
Sam
Moderator
Premium Member
Registered: 24th Dec 99
Location: West Midlands
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Why are you bringing race and religion into a topic about TORTURE and if it really is torture.
Your thread title is called "Torture" at Guantanamo, I've explained in my previous posts why I'm "bringing race and religion" into it.
If your thread was just about torture in general, then my replies would perhaps be different.
|
willay
Moderator
Organiser: South East, National Events
Premium Member
Registered: 10th Nov 02
Location: Roydon, Essex
User status: Offline
|
Daimo dont be such a nob, no one is calling you a racist, I mean, they wouldnt dare call you one seeing as your mum is seeing a arabic bloke. wait no one cares
|
John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by willay
quote:
Originally posted by John
Do you think the Americans wouldn't do exactly the same to a white american christian?
No I dont think they would do it to a white american who bombed aload of people
One guy, not tied to a bigger organization, caught, no extra information to be had, was exectued.
There's no point torturing people for the sake of it (obvioulsy I thought) only if there is some information to get out of them.
If the prisoner is usless to you they should then be processed, an jailed/released/killed.
|
Daimo B
Member
Registered: 20th Mar 00
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by willay
quote:
Originally posted by John
Do you think the Americans wouldn't do exactly the same to a white american christian?
No I dont think they would do it to a white american who bombed aload of people
OK, this is a fair point, because other than extracting information about who that person worked with, it won't be an on-going war between a huge army of terrorist, it would be a gang, or an individual, so no I don't think they would be tortured, as they are from the country, so its an internal problem, not a country vs country problem, which is a completly different kettle of fish.
Now raise that question if say the person was White, and from Bulgaria....... And was at war with America, like they are in Afghanisan.
Would that person be given the same treatment?
I think they would be.
|
willay
Moderator
Organiser: South East, National Events
Premium Member
Registered: 10th Nov 02
Location: Roydon, Essex
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by John
quote:
Originally posted by willay
quote:
Originally posted by John
Do you think the Americans wouldn't do exactly the same to a white american christian?
No I dont think they would do it to a white american who bombed aload of people
One guy, not tied to a bigger organization, caught, no extra information to be had, was exectued.
There's no point torturing people for the sake of it (obvioulsy I thought) only if there is some information to get out of them.
If the prisoner is usless to you they should then be processed, an jailed/released/killed.
Good points, these guys being detained at Guantanmo are willing to blow themselfs up and commit their life to other peoples misery, surely abit of illegal torture isnt going to work?
|
Daimo B
Member
Registered: 20th Mar 00
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sam
Your thread title is called "Torture" at Guantanamo, I've explained in my previous posts why I'm "bringing race and religion" into it.
If your thread was just about torture in general, then my replies would perhaps be different.
Again, i fail to see your point...
I cannot see how any race or religion aspectsh ahve been brought into the title. It says what is says
TORTURE AT GUANTANAMO
Where is the race, or religion aspect to a topic about torture techniques, and as to whether its really torture.
bandwagon, racisim, please jump off of it.
|
John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
|
I didn't think we were discussing the legalities either, I'm aware some of it is illegal.
I was giving my opinion on the subject, which I thought was the point of the thread.
If it wasn't i'll leave.
|
Dr Pepper
Member
Registered: 21st Sep 02
Location: oxford Drives Renault Clio RS200
User status: Offline
|
Yes its torture
Should they be doing it - no
Is there any point to it - very little.....Torture has been proven throughout the ages to be a poor way of extracting infomation from someone.
Some of you seriously miss the point....you really think everyone at the bay is a convicted terrorist.....not even close to being true.
What if Saddam had been sending his special forces to america... kidnapping american soldiers from training bases, flying them to a neutral country that is prepared to look the other way...then accusing them of being enemy of Iraq and torturing them as enemys of the state.....you think that would have been allowed to stand?
How exactly does Guantanamo help the 'war on terrorism'?
|
willay
Moderator
Organiser: South East, National Events
Premium Member
Registered: 10th Nov 02
Location: Roydon, Essex
User status: Offline
|
come on John, we're discussing it, dont get in a hissy fit because you're opinion is wrong 
|
John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
|
Even if my opinion was wrong (which it's not  ) Sam, and now Dr Pepper and possibly you, are missing that it's not about religion.
Yes religion is related to why they have been detained, but you must get that they aren't being tortured for being Muslim, I can't make that any simpler.
|
Dr Pepper
Member
Registered: 21st Sep 02
Location: oxford Drives Renault Clio RS200
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by John
Even if my opinion was wrong (which it's not ) Sam, and now Dr Pepper and possibly you, are missing that it's not about religion.
Yes religion is related to why they have been detained, but you must get that they aren't being tortured for being Muslim, I can't make that any simpler.
What are you on about--- you seem to be talking about a different thread to anyone else - where is religion mentioned in my post.
[Edited on 25-08-2009 by Dr Pepper]
|
Daimo B
Member
Registered: 20th Mar 00
User status: Offline
|
Pepper is right, not everyone is convicted, only suspected.
How canit help? Extracting names, information, any military strongholds, last known locations of suspected militants.
Torture has always been proved TO work, its just in this modern era of humanity its not put into practice so much...
Or so you think......
Does anyone know about the rest of the world? China, Asia, Korea etc..... Torture goes on there on a huge scale.
Didn't a young lad get beaten with a cane for simply going on the internet too much? Punished by his school teachers...
Thats physical pain, REAL phyisical pain. None of this
"Im gonna screw your mumma" verbal insults. None of this "hold a drill to your head and turn it on/off".
Its REAL torture, and it goes on, far worse around the world in developed countries.
[Edited on 25-08-2009 by VXR]
|
willay
Moderator
Organiser: South East, National Events
Premium Member
Registered: 10th Nov 02
Location: Roydon, Essex
User status: Offline
|
See, what you guys need to learn is discussions go off topic onto RELATED subjects which there is nothing wrong with that. if you dont want to discuss that spout of conversation then just dont reply to it and keep on goign on about torture.
I understand they are being tortured illegally because the americans think they are above human rights, which they are not, and now the old bush goverment are going to get spanked from doing shit they shouldnt have done because it breaks laws we have internationally.
|
Sam
Moderator
Premium Member
Registered: 24th Dec 99
Location: West Midlands
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by John
but you must get that they aren't being tortured for being Muslim, I can't make that any simpler.
But what if some the Yanks working in the camp don't like Muslims? Then your statement is incorrect
|
John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Pepper
What are you on about--- you seem to be talking about a different thread to anyone else - where is religion mentioned in my post.
I was, no idea why I put your name on that, must have been because I was reading it before posting.
|
