lostboy
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quote:
Originally posted by Fad
quote:
Originally posted by lostboy
quote:
Originally posted by VXR
quote:
Originally posted by AW06
Even with a powerbox the full advantage cant be used due to the standard lower half. I plan to show the performance gains of simple turning like a custom inlet and a C16XE/X16XEL head.
C16 kit came with lower manifold. Understand the engine, they are not X16 engines, much better heads on them.
And also proven by a Nova that also ran the same engine modifications, which made 156bhp. 
C16XE with an X16XEL head makes better power than with a C16XE head, so you're wrong there.
Nope C16xe head was better and this is backed up by the fact SBD buy them at a premium just like the Costcast heads on the 20XE's
Lee Mannings car had
Manzel
264 Schricks
7500 rev limit
Was datron tracked at 0-60 in under 7 secs and did the standing quarter in the low 15's. Was a very quick and well set up car back in the day
Read the link in my last post, especially the bit where it says 1.6 cylinder heads.
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Fad
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Location: Dartford Kent Drives: 330cd
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My bad
Although the difference will be negligiable seeing as they have the same port dimensions.
The argument here is that the simple mods can make more power if set up correctly rather than expecting 150 bhp from bolting on some copied inlet.
[Edited on 09-02-2010 by Fad]
[Edited on 09-02-2010 by Fad]
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Daimo B
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quote:
Originally posted by lostboy
Was it put on one of them rolling roads that are brought to shows on a trailor? Lol. And yes the XEL isn't alot better although SBD do recommend it http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Head_Components/Head_Mods/1_6L_Vauxhall%20Heads_Mods.htm
Yes as the inlet design on the XEL is very similar to port sizes on C16 head.
Red the post, it was setup BY MANZTEL themselves as a development engine.
And no, it wasn't on some pikey rr. Was setup whilst you were still probably doing your GCSE's (or 11+).
As I say, this arguement is so 2001 though. I don't need to prove to some internet wippet  Engine power was proven to be at worst 5bhp out from claimed 161, which made it ironically the same output as the 2nd engine done that was in a Nova. The performance on the road led it to be about right also.
So stfu, and get back to talking about death and killing yourself.
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lostboy
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I agree with what you're saying, but he never mentioned cams, head work, raising the compression or raising the rev limiter, and 161 with them mods and no cams makes it hard to beleive although it would still be hard pushed to get that with cams and mods listed, I assume the rev limiter was raised though as he said 161 bhp @ 7500 or something, surely you see where I'm coming from? An inlet manifold and exhaust system would not make 161 bhp on any engine with 109 bhp as standard.
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Daimo B
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Actually if you knew anything about C16's, you would know they originally ran at 150bhp via different fueling, and inlet system.
They were de-tuned for the road.
Again, editting as your obviously not reading the posts properly. Try it, as its a reading forum, it does help.
Rev limiter was raised, and fueling adjusted.
[Edited on 09-02-2010 by VXR]
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lostboy
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My above post was for Fad, VXR, I still say you're full of shit, set up by mantzel or fucking SBD, I do not beleive it made that with an inlet and exhaust, if you said cams, head work high compression pistons raised compression and raised rev limiter I would beleive you. I do not beleive that at all.
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lostboy
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Actually if you knew anything about C16's, you would know they originally ran at 150bhp via different fueling, and inlet system.
They were de-tuned for the road.
Again, editting as your obviously not reading the posts properly. Try it, as its a reading forum, it does help.
Rev limiter was raised, and fueling adjusted.
[Edited on 09-02-2010 by VXR]
No, they were 140 bhp but restricted down to 109. OK then, the mods I am doing to mine are (and its a 1.6 X16XEL to be precise)
79.5mm High compression pistons (rods and ARP bolts to cope)
Inlet manifold
Cams
Head work (port and polish, skimmed head etc)
Exhaust system
Remap
So going by your logic that should make 200 bhp
Edit, actually I will be doing more than that but only subtle mods, like different injectors and what ever else I can do at the time.
[Edited on 09-02-2010 by lostboy]
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Daimo B
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quote:
Originally posted by lostboy
My above post was for Fad, VXR, I still say you're full of shit, set up by mantzel or fucking SBD, I do not beleive it made that with an inlet and exhaust, if you said cams, head work high compression pistons raised compression and raised rev limiter I would beleive you. I do not beleive that at all.
Indeed, was into vauxhalls in a huge huge way 5-10 years ago, but some web dude tells me im sprouting rubbish, who never saw the car, never knew the engine, or anything about it.
Let me guess, drugs and drink are bad, but you've never tried them too?
Guess your experience with C16's hasn't been as successfull as many we knew on here.
Fad, Lee's doing 6.39 0-60 too  Mega under 7 secs.
Nothing changes though does it. One twats removed and only to be replaced with another IE know-it-all
[Edited on 09-02-2010 by VXR]
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lostboy
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I've got no idea why you are mentioning seconds, I don't give a fuck about seconds, I'm talking about bhp.
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Daimo B
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quote:
Originally posted by lostboy
No, they were 140 bhp but restricted down to 109. OK then, the mods I am doing to mine are (and its a 1.6 X16XEL to be precise)
79.5mm High compression pistons (rods and ARP bolts to cope)
Inlet manifold
Cams
Head work (port and polish, skimmed head etc)
Exhaust system
Remap
So going by your logic that should make 200 bhp
No, it was 150.
High comp pistons won't do anything.
Head work won't give me, just free up the mid range, and few bhp top end.
Cams, depending on duration (and your going for ? degree cams)?
The standard inlet will flow up to about 180bhp.
Argue all you want to. I'd stay off the Fast Car and max powers.
What logic? I haven't put any logic? Simple facts
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lostboy
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Oh, high compression pistons are pointless then are they? Oh I wish Jamsport and Jeff at autosprint would stop lying to me.
And it was 140 bhp.
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Daimo B
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Pistons = strength. Plus pockets to allow for high cam duration. They give no performance enhancements.
OK, yes, your right, your right on everything.... Don't make me scan in the original specs to prove you wrong...
[Edited on 09-02-2010 by VXR]
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lostboy
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Go ahead, scan them in.
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jr
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Location: Kent
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Pistons = strength. Plus pockets to allow for high cam duration. They give no performance enhancements.
OK, yes, your right, your right on everything.... Don't make me scan in the original specs to prove you wrong...
[Edited on 09-02-2010 by VXR]
? Compresion has alot to do with how an engine will perform, pistons playing a apart in this
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Daimo B
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Yeah you know what i mean though JR. A piston by itself will not offer any power upgrade. Accompany it with other modifications and yes it makes a difference.
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AlexW
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And a port polish will add about 5bhp at most.
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lostboy
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quote:
Originally posted by jr
quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Pistons = strength. Plus pockets to allow for high cam duration. They give no performance enhancements.
OK, yes, your right, your right on everything.... Don't make me scan in the original specs to prove you wrong...
[Edited on 09-02-2010 by VXR]
? Compresion has alot to do with how an engine will perform, pistons playing a apart in this
You're wrong VXR is right, just like his 1.6 with 161 bhp and barely any mods 
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Daimo B
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quote:
Originally posted by lostboy
You're wrong VXR is right, just like his 1.6 with 161 bhp and barely any mods
what experience do you have again with vauxhalls?
Showing your lack of reading skills again. Mrs engine, not mine.
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lostboy
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Yeah you know what i mean though JR. A piston by itself will not offer any power upgrade. Accompany it with other modifications and yes it makes a difference.
Now who's the one not reading threads properly? I mentioned plenty of mods to go with my pistons. Seriously mate, give up, well done if you had a 1.6 with barely any mods and it made 161 bhp, I don't beleive it and you don't have to prove it to me, you know you did it, so you just beleive that 
Edit: As for my experience, not alot, just a few years playing with engines as a hobby.
[Edited on 09-02-2010 by lostboy]
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Daimo B
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I did read, what cam profile are you going for?
Saying cams means nothing, only certain durations require pocketted pistons.
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jr
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Yeah you know what i mean though JR. A piston by itself will not offer any power upgrade. Accompany it with other modifications and yes it makes a difference.
the exactley the same engine with only the piston differing will alter the output because of the compression change IMO
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Daimo B
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I don't think changing the compression on a standard engine would do too much at all tbh.
But if you've got some reading for me im always happy to be enlightened.
Changing pistons is usually down to over-boaring, or needing a stronger piston.
There-for the physcial piston itself gains no power at all, as its other parts that need to be adjusted for it to work.
I.E an exhaust, it exphells the gasses faster, it free's up power (at the cost of noise). A free-er flowing panel will allow airflow to be smoother and at a faster rate into the engine, its freeing up power.
This power can be further obtained by mapping the engine to suit above mods to get more power.
Pistons are not like this, like replacing rods, its a strengthening item to make way for more power with other modifications.
Still, im always up for a bit of reading as thats my understanding of it.
[Edited on 09-02-2010 by VXR]
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lostboy
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If changing the compression ratio of an engine makes no difference then why do people drop their compression big power turbo engines and raise it for race engines?
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Daimo B
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Cam duration? Or don't you know?
Seriously, are you actually asking that question
when getting large power turbo engine, what other parts are generally replaced???
When tuning a race engine, what other parts are replaced????
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jr
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you've missed the point daimo
changing nothing but the pistons for ones that alter the comp ratio will affect output, for the better or worse, therefore has an affect
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