Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
playing a superior racing sim i see
Sim 
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Graham88
Member
Registered: 16th Apr 07
Location: South East Kent Drives: E46 M3
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That's so cool AK. I want that when I move out
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Colin
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Registered: 4th Apr 02
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Dont want to spend a lot really, good to see what others have though cheers. 
AK thats just outrageous!!
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mwg
Member
Registered: 19th Feb 04
Location: South Lakes
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I don't understand whats wrong with having a bloody big TV and surround sound system in your living room
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Colin
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Registered: 4th Apr 02
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I have, ive just got an unused room upstairs I thought could have like a 90" TV in it for watching films & porn
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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quote:
Originally posted by AK
this is a guy thats on TS and does trackdays with us..... crazy
i had the same scarface poster in my garage when i moved in.
gave it away for free. please don't tell me it was worth a lot
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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For inspiration have a look at the Gallery on AVForums, everything from a few hundred quid setups to silly money, like SO (in terms of gear anyways).
Few favourites, Here, Here, Here, Here, Here, Here, Here, Here, Here, Here and especially good, The Bat Barn
[Edited on 16-02-2011 by Dom]
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Colin
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Registered: 4th Apr 02
User status: Offline
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The problem is where to stop, those AV forums can be bad..........
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Colin
The problem is where to stop, those AV forums can be bad..........
That is one of the issues but set yourself a budget and get reading and see what you can get. And obviously keep an eye on the classified sections of forums as there are always bargins to be had.
Regarding cables, don't get mugged off into paying £100+ on Monster HDMI/Optical cables etc For HDMI get anything that has decent connectors (IXOS is a tad expensive, but £10-14 gets you 1m-1.5m and they are decent). And for speaker cable look at Van Damme Blue, about £2/2.50 a mtr.
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Graham88
Member
Registered: 16th Apr 07
Location: South East Kent Drives: E46 M3
User status: Offline
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The Bat Barn is amazing.
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whitter45
Member
Registered: 15th Nov 02
Location: Norton
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by Colin
The problem is where to stop, those AV forums can be bad..........
That is one of the issues but set yourself a budget and get reading and see what you can get. And obviously keep an eye on the classified sections of forums as there are always bargins to be had.
Regarding cables, don't get mugged off into paying £100+ on Monster HDMI/Optical cables etc For HDMI get anything that has decent connectors (IXOS is a tad expensive, but £10-14 gets you 1m-1.5m and they are decent). And for speaker cable look at Van Damme Blue, about £2/2.50 a mtr.
10-14 is expensive for HDMI
couple of quid of ebay - its a digital signal so its 0 or 1 so quality over short lenghts is not an issue
My mate has about a 5k setup for his sound system and uses HDMi cables from ebay
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A2H GO
Member
Registered: 14th Sep 04
Location: Stoke
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by whitter45
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by Colin
The problem is where to stop, those AV forums can be bad..........
That is one of the issues but set yourself a budget and get reading and see what you can get. And obviously keep an eye on the classified sections of forums as there are always bargins to be had.
Regarding cables, don't get mugged off into paying £100+ on Monster HDMI/Optical cables etc For HDMI get anything that has decent connectors (IXOS is a tad expensive, but £10-14 gets you 1m-1.5m and they are decent). And for speaker cable look at Van Damme Blue, about £2/2.50 a mtr.
10-14 is expensive for HDMI
couple of quid of ebay - its a digital signal so its 0 or 1 so quality over short lenghts is not an issue
My mate has about a 5k setup for his sound system and uses HDMi cables from ebay
The slightly more expensive ones are better in terms of build quality, lot of people have trouble with the very cheap ones falling apart despite them both doing the same job when they work.
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whitter45
Member
Registered: 15th Nov 02
Location: Norton
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by A2H GO
quote:
Originally posted by whitter45
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by Colin
The problem is where to stop, those AV forums can be bad..........
That is one of the issues but set yourself a budget and get reading and see what you can get. And obviously keep an eye on the classified sections of forums as there are always bargins to be had.
Regarding cables, don't get mugged off into paying £100+ on Monster HDMI/Optical cables etc For HDMI get anything that has decent connectors (IXOS is a tad expensive, but £10-14 gets you 1m-1.5m and they are decent). And for speaker cable look at Van Damme Blue, about £2/2.50 a mtr.
10-14 is expensive for HDMI
couple of quid of ebay - its a digital signal so its 0 or 1 so quality over short lenghts is not an issue
My mate has about a 5k setup for his sound system and uses HDMi cables from ebay
The slightly more expensive ones are better in terms of build quality, lot of people have trouble with the very cheap ones falling apart despite them both doing the same job when they work.
shouldnt need to touch them once they are plugged in so why they fall aprt is beyond me
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John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
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Some of my ebay ones are really good build quality, think and heavy connectors.
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Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by whitter45
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by Colin
The problem is where to stop, those AV forums can be bad..........
That is one of the issues but set yourself a budget and get reading and see what you can get. And obviously keep an eye on the classified sections of forums as there are always bargins to be had.
Regarding cables, don't get mugged off into paying £100+ on Monster HDMI/Optical cables etc For HDMI get anything that has decent connectors (IXOS is a tad expensive, but £10-14 gets you 1m-1.5m and they are decent). And for speaker cable look at Van Damme Blue, about £2/2.50 a mtr.
10-14 is expensive for HDMI
couple of quid of ebay - its a digital signal so its 0 or 1 so quality over short lenghts is not an issue
My mate has about a 5k setup for his sound system and uses HDMi cables from ebay
I did state that they are tad expensive, but as A2H said, it's about build quality and sure you might get that from a few quid cable but from my experience that isn't always the case. So paying £10 isn't a biggie in the grand scheme of things and i wouldn't say that was expensive when you consider you can get HDMI cables for a few £k.
Also it's a bit more complicated than "it's a digital signal"; timing and error-correction being one of the major issues with digital transmissions and digital cables.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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do people honestly pay a few k for hdmi cables
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AK
Member
Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
User status: Offline
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i paid £3
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
Also it's a bit more complicated than "it's a digital signal"; timing and error-correction being one of the major issues with digital transmissions and digital cables.
not really, when it comes to hdmi cables anyway. Maybe for digital satellite signals and such where interference can cause large portions of the signal to be stopped thus causing blocking and artifacts, cables though, you arent going to lose a whole chunk of data over a 2 meter cable lol, no matter how cheap it is, unless its made of wood
[Edited on 25-02-2011 by Steve]
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Nath
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
do people honestly pay a few k for hdmi cables
k?
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Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
Also it's a bit more complicated than "it's a digital signal"; timing and error-correction being one of the major issues with digital transmissions and digital cables.
not really, when it comes to hdmi cables anyway. Maybe for digital satellite signals and such where interference can cause large portions of the signal to be stopped thus causing blocking and artifacts, cables though, you arent going to lose a whole chunk of data over a 2 meter cable lol, no matter how cheap it is, unless its made of wood
[Edited on 25-02-2011 by Steve]
Not sure where you got the idea of 'large portions of the signal to be stopped' or 'chunk', you only need a single bit to be miss-interpreted by EC to cause issues. Shoddy clocking and interference (which can causing rounding of the square-wave) causes majority of the problems, but granted, most EC can happily deal with a fair amount of shite before they start misbehaving.
And yes over short distances you mostly likely won't have a problem using a quid cable but that isn't what I was saying. As I rightly said, it is a bit more complicated than "it's a digital signal". And there are a billion other factors that come into play, but I’m a bit rusty since my uni days of studying digital (audio) transmission and filter design modules.
Edit - regarding cable cost, look at Kimber Kable and Wireworld. They both do $1000+ HDMI cables and with Kimber you can spend £4000 on a phono cable (granted it's analogue).
[Edited on 25-02-2011 by Dom]
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ed
Member
Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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Digital signals are really susceptible to noise. Anyone own a DAB radio? I could understand if the debate was about why you shouldn't spend £100 in a 1m-2m cable, but £10 is acceptable in the grand scheme of things.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
Also it's a bit more complicated than "it's a digital signal"; timing and error-correction being one of the major issues with digital transmissions and digital cables.
not really, when it comes to hdmi cables anyway. Maybe for digital satellite signals and such where interference can cause large portions of the signal to be stopped thus causing blocking and artifacts, cables though, you arent going to lose a whole chunk of data over a 2 meter cable lol, no matter how cheap it is, unless its made of wood
[Edited on 25-02-2011 by Steve]
Not sure where you got the idea of 'large portions of the signal to be stopped' or 'chunk', you only need a single bit to be miss-interpreted by EC to cause issues. Shoddy clocking and interference (which can causing rounding of the square-wave) causes majority of the problems, but granted, most EC can happily deal with a fair amount of shite before they start misbehaving.
And yes over short distances you mostly likely won't have a problem using a quid cable but that isn't what I was saying. As I rightly said, it is a bit more complicated than "it's a digital signal". And there are a billion other factors that come into play, but I’m a bit rusty since my uni days of studying digital (audio) transmission and filter design modules.
Edit - regarding cable cost, look at Kimber Kable and Wireworld. They both do $1000+ HDMI cables and with Kimber you can spend £4000 on a phono cable (granted it's analogue).
[Edited on 25-02-2011 by Dom]
what i was getting at was digital signal (as far as a cable is concerend anyway) is fairly fault tolerant, as long as the signal carrying the info gets there at all it wont be affected, only if part of a strand of that signal is lost compeletly will you notice
imnot arguing that shouldnt spend 10 quid on the cable, i just wanted a discussion on the interference side of it
[Edited on 25-02-2011 by Steve]
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Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by ed
Digital signals are really susceptible to noise. Anyone own a DAB radio? I could understand if the debate was about why you shouldn't spend £100 in a 1m-2m cable, but £10 is acceptable in the grand scheme of things.
Been a while since I did anything (Hoeg's and Lauterbach's 'Digital Audio Broadcasting' is worth a read) with DAB, but if I remember correctly it'd uses/used convolutional UEP (unequal error protection) where you can vary the strength (aka code rate) of the error protection within an audio frame (each frame was split into four groups iirc - header info, code rate/scale info, audio samples and CRC checking). What caused the issue were the audio samples having the weakest error protection compared to the other groups, which resulted in a large intermittent area (audio drop-outs/muting) in reception between useable signal and no signal. Whereas most digital wireless systems tend to have a steep roll off between signal and no signal.
That's the gist of it from what I can recall of my first year lecturers.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
what i was getting at was digital signal (as far as a cable is concerned anyway) is fairly fault tolerant, as long as the signal carrying the info gets there at all it won’t be affected, only if part of a strand of that signal is lost completely will you notice
im not arguing that shouldn’t spend 10 quid on the cable, i just wanted a discussion on the interference side of it
It's not as simple 'if the signal gets there then all is ok'; it's not. What you receive out of one end of a cable is, usually, not an exact copy of the original source. There will be differences (voltage/impedance); granted they'll be stupidly minute, but differences nonetheless.
As said, one of the main issues with digital signal/transmission is clocking (there are a number of ways this is measured, usually it's edge-to-edge) of the signal between the D/A's and A/D's, where excess jitter/'clock-skew'/spikes can occur (usually) by induced interference; also there are other factors like temperature where an increase/decrease of temperature on the crystal/resonator causes a variation (aka temperature-drift( in the clock signal.
Now a spike in the clock signal could be interpreted to sample an extra bit, so instead of a 32bit 'word' you end up with a 33bit 'word' or bits get shifted down so a significant bit (within a 'word') becomes a least-significant bit etc.
And if you get rounding of a clock pulse it causes issue with measurement especially with edge-to-edge.
There are a number of ways to manage this, but usually you'll have a start-frame/sync-bit that is sent prior to each 'word' which in essence readies/syncs the converter for the next word.
You can also have differential clock lines, which I believe is used on HDMI (don't really know a huge amount about digital video transmission), where you have a number of clock lines (you'll also tend to have a clock ground/shield, usually grounded at one end which basically acts like a faraday cage around the clock lines) and you compare (how you compare depends on protocol) between them to attempt to cancel out variations/induced interference in the clock signal. You tend to find this on applications where you're clocking at stupid speeds - ie: GHz or 100's of MHz.
And regarding clock signal transmission, this can be either via separate clock lines or the clock signal can be embedded within the data line eg - biphase mark (S/PDif aka AES3 protocol) or Manchester code (ethernet).
Anyways this is the basics, The Sun/Daily Mail layman terms, of clocking anyways. You also have data side of it, but either way most digital protocols have a form(s) of error protection/correction to deal with issues like this.
Edit - Apologies about the Paul_J essay and going waaaaayyy off topic. And feel free to correct any of this as it's been about 4/5 years since I’ve touched/read/looked at anything ADC/DAC/digital audio transmission/digital filter design related.
[Edited on 26-02-2011 by Dom]
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pow
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 06
Location: Hazlemere, Buckinghamshire
User status: Offline
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We fucking make HDMI cables at work
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CorsAsh
Member
Registered: 19th Apr 02
Location: Munich
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Superior to what Stcheven? 
Superior to a glass case full of plastic aeroplanes.
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