Dan295
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Registered: 9th Oct 06
Location: London
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correct, it has to be a signed contract first though before anything can be verbal
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MarkM
Member
Registered: 11th Apr 01
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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Are you serious?
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ed
Member
Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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You can enter an agreement without signing a contract, contracts just make things easier to prove when it all goes tits up. E-Mail conversations are the best way to speak to a client because it leaves a permanent paper trail which doesn't go away, the client can delete the lot but you'll always have the correspondance your end complete with their quoted messages.
Wouldn't know what to do in this situation, don't think I'd even open my laptop up to do design a website for that sum of money as you always need to factor in how much faffing needs to be done. Some people will incur massive bills because of the incessant need to e-mail you every 5 seconds with new amazing ideas, making it difficult to get anything done. Maybe just hand the work over and take it as a life lesson?
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Butler
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Registered: 2nd Jun 05
Location: London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
quote:
Originally posted by Bart
quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
Does this seem relevant Butler?
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell
amazing.
Im doing the exact same thing as a customer right now 
It's been shown time and time again the best way to resolve this type of bullshit is raise your prices. The lower your prices / the lower the budget of the client, the more they count the pennies, act unprofessional or basically become a pain in the arse.
A private client who only wants to spend £150 is guaranteed to be a much fussier / bigger pain in the arse compared to a client who wants to spend £1500 ... and a client who wants to pay £15,000 will probably be quite happy to just leave it up to you to deliver the end result and not argue about anything.
Our company for example (Although dev, not really web design) charges about £1000 a day inc vat (although I don't see it ) - so butler's £150 - would've been like an hour or two of our time. There's no way you could reasonably meet a client, get what they want, design it, build it, test it, deliver it for an hour or two's worth of work. It's obscene.
Our minimum charge is £500 (1/2 day charge), so even if you just want to chat about potentially doing something - that'll be £500.
I understand though freelance is a completely different ball game, but I'd say £30 / hr is reasonable for butler's time. The fact they only want to pay £75 - means they only want to pay for 2-3 hours worth of his time, which is ridiculous.
Tell me about it, that link is outstanding I did it cheap as a favour, it was only meant to take a couple of days. It was basically just a wordpress theme I scratch build, so I saw it as practise for myself. It took hours, its such a joke they don't want to pay. I suppose I've learnt my lesson though.
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Butler
Member
Registered: 2nd Jun 05
Location: London
User status: Offline
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For the record, I also realise I have spelt 'advice' wrong in the thread title - thanks.
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Rob_sta
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Registered: 14th Jun 04
Location: Cheshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan295
correct, it has to be a signed contract first though before anything can be verbal
No it doesnt, you havent got a clue what your talking about.
I'm a practicing solicitor OP if you want proper advice U2U me.
I also believe MarkM may well be in the profession too.
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Butler
Member
Registered: 2nd Jun 05
Location: London
User status: Offline
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Not really sure what this cretin is talking about but I just received this message:
i have made a decision, if the £75 is not refunded I shall be taking this to court not for £75 but for £75 plus lost damages. I will find out the information I need for this. I am pretty sure it is just name and address at this moment James although if you do not want to give this being a uk resident I know that is obtainable anyway that would just make it easier.
regards,
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Brett
Premium Member
Registered: 16th Dec 02
Location: Manchester
User status: Offline
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Please do not give her a bean. Clearly thinks she's a smart ass. Interested to see Rob's 'professional advice' so would rather see that posted publicly than via u2u too.
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adiohead
Member
Registered: 28th Sep 01
User status: Offline
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Sue her first!!! ffs.
EDIT - This:
quote:
Originally posted by Eddx14xe
Put the site up but leave it empty, is possible? Or put a message on it saying 'this site will be fully functional when *girls names* have paid me for it'.
Then sue her.
[Edited on 22-11-2011 by adiohead]
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Butler
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Registered: 2nd Jun 05
Location: London
User status: Offline
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The facts are:
They wanted a website and said can I do one for £150, I said yes. They said would be ok for around mid July? I said yes.
By mid July there was a website live, it was just missing pics and copy, the only reason it was missing these things is because they hadnt got them to me in time.
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Eddx14xe
Member
Registered: 12th Jan 10
Location: Hertfordshire
User status: Offline
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Put the site up but leave it empty, is possible? Or put a message on it saying 'this site will be fully functional when *girls names* have paid me for it'.
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Neil
Member
Registered: 2nd Nov 03
Location: Newcastle Drives: E46 MSport Coupe
User status: Offline
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Site isn't up because they haven't fully paid for website, so any loss of earnings would be because they haven't fully paid for the website. She's an idiot.
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Fro
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Registered: 20th Jun 06
Location: Rainham, Essex Drives: A3 2.0TDi Sport
User status: Offline
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Another friend + money situation down the pan. I try to never mix the two tbh they usually expect something for nothing then you fall out yadda yadda.
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atz_49
Member
Registered: 17th May 05
Location: Midlands Drives: 350Z
User status: Offline
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Seriously, just man up.
She's all talk.
Tell her to go away and be done with it.
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Rob_sta
Member
Registered: 14th Jun 04
Location: Cheshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Brett
Please do not give her a bean. Clearly thinks she's a smart ass. Interested to see Rob's 'professional advice' so would rather see that posted publicly than via u2u too.
1) You offered to make her a website and she accepted your offer
2) She agreed to pay you and you agree to take time to make the website
They are the two main points but to establish whether you ever made a contract she needs to ascertain whether there was ever an intention to create "legal relations" i.e did you or her ever feel or think that you would sue the other if they didnt fulfil their side of the bargain? If she were to bring a claim against you this would be one of the things looked at and it may be difficult to establish because you are friends rather than strangers or business associates.
You said that they asked for it by a set time and you delivered it by that time. You had therefore fulfilled the contract. If they raise the complaint that things were missing but you were reliant on them providing them and had asked for them then they dont have a leg to stand on.
The reality is that if anyone were to be making a claim for breach of contract it should be you because you have fulfilled your consideration and made the website and therefore should have been paid in full.
It all sounds pathetic though and these people you made a site for need to sort themselves out.
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s4k1b
Member
Registered: 11th Nov 02
Location: West Yorkshire
User status: Offline
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clear the website of any content.
and leave her to it .
nothing can be done.
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Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Butler
Not really sure what this cretin is talking about but I just received this message:
i have made a decision, if the £75 is not refunded I shall be taking this to court not for £75 but for £75 plus lost damages. I will find out the information I need for this. I am pretty sure it is just name and address at this moment James although if you do not want to give this being a uk resident I know that is obtainable anyway that would just make it easier.
regards,
call her bluff, tell her 'go ahead'
- At the end of the day, she didn't pay fully for something, therefore can get to fuck. She won't take it through court for £75. 'Lost Damages' ... give over.
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Butler
Member
Registered: 2nd Jun 05
Location: London
User status: Offline
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She wants to take it to a small claims court. I spoke to a legal advisor at the citizens advice bureau yesterday. He said I could issue her summons to claim for the money they still owe, otherwise if she does it first I should make a counter-claim against her and the likely hood is that I will win.
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Brett
Premium Member
Registered: 16th Dec 02
Location: Manchester
User status: Offline
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Deffo call her bluff and post any correspondence on here for us to laugh at.
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Butler
Member
Registered: 2nd Jun 05
Location: London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ojc
Students
No Ollie, no students
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adiohead
Member
Registered: 28th Sep 01
User status: Offline
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MarkM
Member
Registered: 11th Apr 01
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob_sta
quote:
Originally posted by Dan295
correct, it has to be a signed contract first though before anything can be verbal
No it doesnt, you havent got a clue what your talking about.
I'm a practicing solicitor OP if you want proper advice U2U me.
I also believe MarkM may well be in the profession too.
Correct 
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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fucking hell
just give them half the website, thats what they paid for
simple
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Butler
Member
Registered: 2nd Jun 05
Location: London
User status: Offline
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Never working without a written contract again
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shaned12345
Member
Registered: 28th Sep 10
Location: Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire
User status: Offline
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Personally i'd tell her to suck a fat one and take me to court..
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