James
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Registered: 1st Jun 02
Location: Surrey
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quote:
Originally posted by VrsTurbo
quote:
Originally posted by James
quote:
Originally posted by VrsTurbo
20k is good going for a grad job though is it not?!
Not really - I don't know that industry but most blue-chip grad schemes pay £30k+ and then a sign-on bonus on top of a few thousand.
[Edited on 10-04-2013 by James]
But thats down london is it not? I presume that his are midlands based jobs
Well the national average is £26k according to a quick Google. So £20k still seems a bit low.
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SVM 286
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Registered: 13th Feb 05
Location: pain
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quote:
Originally posted by James
quote:
Originally posted by VrsTurbo
20k is good going for a grad job though is it not?!
Not really - I don't know that industry but most blue-chip grad schemes pay £30k+ and then a sign-on bonus on top of a few thousand.
[Edited on 10-04-2013 by James]
Christ! 
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noshua
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Registered: 19th Nov 08
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National average will be skewed because of the sheer amount of London jobs and the increase in salary. I'd expect around 20-22k outside of London and 24+ in or near London.
I'd imagine as part of the scheme you get rated once or twice a year on your performance, which then is reflected on your salary. Makes it easier for you to progress and not be stuck on the same salary as someone who is a bit of a donkey (in comparison). That's what happens on the scheme I'm on anyway.
[Edited on 10-04-2013 by noshua]
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antnee
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Registered: 30th Dec 07
Location: Cov Drives: Clio 197
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The average for Automotive/mech schemes is around 25k, there isn't many near London to skew figures too much as they are mainly around the West Mids
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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Is there any money in engineering outside of oil and gas? I was informed there wasn't.
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antnee
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Registered: 30th Dec 07
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Not as many 6 figure salaries, but work your way up and you can
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taylorboosh
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Registered: 3rd Apr 07
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Whats the final salary? £20k a year seems a lot for a uni mong
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Rob E
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Registered: 1st Jan 06
Location: Madeley, Stafford....I want to live back in Wales!
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As a graduate I would just be grateful you have been offered a job. There are only two people from my Uni class who have found work within a motorsport/automotive engineering environment and I'm one of the lucky ones. The pay I was offered was slightly less than what I was told to expect but it got me a foot in the door with a very prestigious company and has opened a lot of future career paths. Plus as a graduate you will also receive training which would cost you an arm and a leg if you were to pay for it out of your own pocket 
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Carl
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Registered: 9th May 04
Location: Jimmy Bennett's la la land.
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I wouldnt be agrueing trying to lever more pay I this climate especially if it is your first job I that field. Take the job, access the training etc and get from it what you can. You can always apply for better paid stuff whilst on it. 1 in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Ive been finished uni 6 year and im on less than 20k!
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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i was on 17k-18k when I graduated....
2002 or 2003
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dannymccann
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Registered: 9th Aug 06
Location: Doddington, Lincolnshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob E
The pay I was offered was slightly less than what I was told to expect but it got me a foot in the door with a very prestigious company and has opened a lot of future career paths. Plus as a graduate you will also receive training which would cost you an arm and a leg if you were to pay for it out of your own pocket
As a graduate this is the most important thing, I'm pretty lucky that I've worked my way into a position where my employer is funding my CIMA course, which certainly is well out of my reach
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Jules S
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Registered: 24th Dec 03
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A 30k+ start for a graduate in my profession is really hard for me to get my head around 
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noshua
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Registered: 19th Nov 08
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quote:
Originally posted by Jules S
A 30k+ start for a graduate in my profession is really hard for me to get my head around
What profession is that?
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RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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Architecture IIRC
Aldi Graduate scheme starts at £40k plus an Audi A4 and further incentives. Something like a 90% drop out though within the first year as its so demanding
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LeeM
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Registered: 26th Sep 05
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob E
As a graduate I would just be grateful you have been offered a job. There are only two people from my Uni class who have found work within a motorsport/automotive engineering environment and I'm one of the lucky ones. The pay I was offered was slightly less than what I was told to expect but it got me a foot in the door with a very prestigious company and has opened a lot of future career paths. Plus as a graduate you will also receive training which would cost you an arm and a leg if you were to pay for it out of your own pocket
not at bentley are you?
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Rob E
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Registered: 1st Jan 06
Location: Madeley, Stafford....I want to live back in Wales!
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quote:
Originally posted by LeeM
not at bentley are you?
 I've only been there 7 months so far, I cant believe how quick its gone. The learning curve is like nothing I've ever experienced in my life 
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RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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Do you know Keith Hill? Used to work at Bowler, then Bentley, then back to Bowler and then back to Bentley which is where he still is
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Jules S
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Registered: 24th Dec 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob E
The learning curve is like nothing I've ever experienced in my life
Which is why I'm not a fan of Graduates 
No offence to you (it's probably 100% to do with Architectural graduates) but all of the graduates I've come across a/. Think they know more than I do and b/. think they are worth more money.
It's almost like 'I've done a 7 year degree, what more could there be to know?' and the hardest thing they have to learn is that they really don't know very much at all 
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LeeM
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Registered: 26th Sep 05
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob E
quote:
Originally posted by LeeM
not at bentley are you?
I've only been there 7 months so far, I cant believe how quick its gone. The learning curve is like nothing I've ever experienced in my life
just put an application for one of the trainee positions over summer
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Simon
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Registered: 24th Apr 03
Location: Oxfordshire
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Jules - Had my spring part 3 seminars this week, nearly there! Only taken me 9 years so far....
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Jules S
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Registered: 24th Dec 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Jules - Had my spring part 3 seminars this week, nearly there! Only taken me 9 years so far....
Fairplay
IMO (and I'm far from alone in the thinking) the degree is far far too long.
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Simon
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Registered: 24th Apr 03
Location: Oxfordshire
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I've added a couple of extra years by working and saving a bit more in between but it is too long. Although now I'm nearly there part of me doesn't want the rest to have it easy
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Rob E
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Registered: 1st Jan 06
Location: Madeley, Stafford....I want to live back in Wales!
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quote:
Originally posted by Jules S
quote:
Originally posted by Rob E
The learning curve is like nothing I've ever experienced in my life
Which is why I'm not a fan of Graduates
No offence to you (it's probably 100% to do with Architectural graduates) but all of the graduates I've come across a/. Think they know more than I do and b/. think they are worth more money.
It's almost like 'I've done a 7 year degree, what more could there be to know?' and the hardest thing they have to learn is that they really don't know very much at all
Technically, its not a graduate role but my manager knew I was a fresh graduate when I applied. I'm quite fortunate that my spanner monkey qualifications and background are tremendously useful in my job role too which helped me get up to speed. I'm still learning the Bentley processes and jargon but I like to approach my work with a good learning attitude and show some initiative. I'm very "green" in Bentley's eyes but everyone is more than happy to help if your not sure of anything. People who come in with the attitude you describe sound like the bell ends who have a chip on their shoulder and do themselves no favours
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Jules S
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Registered: 24th Dec 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
I've added a couple of extra years by working and saving a bit more in between but it is too long. Although now I'm nearly there part of me doesn't want the rest to have it easy
Yeah, I sort of worked out you've added a couple of years in there
The thing for me is that Architecture isn't that complicated or difficult. It's never 7 years of learning difficult, and given technology will overtake you in 2 or 3 years at best you may as well forget an awful lot you have been 'taught'
I'm in no way trying to belittle you but here's my experience in a Graduates first month - let's keep salaries aside for clarity
Day 1 - Graduate enters office. More than likely on the premise they will be 'working' on a premium scheme. They read that as leading it. Quickly it becomes apparent they aren't leading anything apart from the sandwich run. Miffed, there are mutterings of 'i didn't sign up for this shit' - people chuckle in disdain.
Day 2 - Graduate insists he/she has a valid input into a premium scheme. Lead architect agrees this may be the case, and assigns them to an associate to gain some insight of the graduates ability to input.
Week 2 - The Graduate is still doing the sandwich run but is shadowing the Technicians.
Month 3 - The graduate is now almost sufficiently competent to take on a small scheme after seeing how things happen in the real world. They take the scheme on, unleash the full worth of their 7 years of learning and get taken off it. Their ideas are too idealistic, too expensive and unworkable.
Month 9 - after re-visits to the previous nine months work/advice. The graduate gets another scheme to run/manage. They rely massively on the technologists because they know what works and how to design things technically. Much 'I want it to look like this' from the graduate, and 'no it cant look like that' from the technologists'
2 years later (maybe) the Graduate might be remotely up to pace on whats going on/how to do their job. And at that point, they may, just may be worth a £30k salary.
I'm rambling and i know that
Just don't expect to do some nice schemes and earn bucket loads too early (It's shit pay anyway - as you should know)
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Simon
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Registered: 24th Apr 03
Location: Oxfordshire
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Trying not to respond as a know-it-all graduate I see your point on fresh graduates. I've been working at the same practice for nearly 5 of those years so have already run my own projects and am working / leading some great projects but I've learnt quickly in a small office of 4.
We had a talk on Thursday from John Asseal who is a great talker, giving a really frank account of architecture and his office. Happy to show his accounts, where they had made mistakes etc. He's lucky enough to be charging what most practices should, instead of this trend of undercutting to suicidal lows just to secure work. He was proud to tell us his Directors were on £100K!
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