Balling
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Way to spectacularly miss the point Balling
I honestly don't see how I did.
Sure, it was a hyperbole, but based on Shell's previous dubious statements about what should and shouldn't be printed by journalists I find it fitting.
But interesting points, none the less. 
So if a person with mental health issues commits a violent crime the media is supposed to what? Tiptoe around the fact? Ignore it entirely?
If it's a fact that the guy was treated, why isn't it okay to print this?
I'm well aware, as I expect most people to be, that mental health issues come in all sizes and colours and that not every single one causes random killing sprees.
I also agree with Ben that if you commit horrible, violent crimes, there's a fair chance you're in need of some level of treatment.
I think this notion that "the media" has a hidden agenda to somehow undermine people with mental issues and paint them as ruthless killers is completely rubbish and probably comes from a personal relation to the topic which, however tragic, might cause some degree of oversensitivity.
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FlaFFy_91
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quote:
Originally posted by Russ
quote:
Originally posted by FlaFFy_91
Someone gets shot every single night in Liverpool...
no
unsure what your answer means?
listen to a liverpool radio station when the news comes on. everyday someone has been shot or knived in liverpool
hardly any of them actually make it onto national news or even the north west news
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JonnyJ
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quote:
Originally posted by Balling
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Way to spectacularly miss the point Balling
I honestly don't see how I did.
Sure, it was a hyperbole, but based on Shell's previous dubious statements about what should and shouldn't be printed by journalists I find it fitting.
But interesting points, none the less.
So if a person with mental health issues commits a violent crime the media is supposed to what? Tiptoe around the fact? Ignore it entirely?
If it's a fact that the guy was treated, why isn't it okay to print this?
I'm well aware, as I expect most people to be, that mental health issues come in all sizes and colours and that not every single one causes random killing sprees.
I also agree with Ben that if you commit horrible, violent crimes, there's a fair chance you're in need of some level of treatment.
I think this notion that "the media" has a hidden agenda to somehow undermine people with mental issues and paint them as ruthless killers is completely rubbish and probably comes from a personal relation to the topic which, however tragic, might cause some degree of oversensitivity.
I dont want the media to ignore it, i just dont want them to put it forward as a potential reason before anything has been investigated, especially when the "mental health issues" he was diagnosed with were something very common and certainly not something that you'd link with killing sprees. Like i say, most peoples only involvement with this story will be now, then they wont pay any attention to anything else that comes of it, so they'll just go away thinking "did it because of mental health issues" and this produces stigma, something lots of people are working very hard to eradicate, so people dont feel the need to hide because they are suffering from mental health problems
Its exactly the same as them writing something like "Micheal, who is black, was arrested on suspicion of dealing drugs". Its totally irrelevant.
If anything i dont like them using it as an excuse. Hes killed a load of people, but he hasnt done it purely because hes depressed has he, otherwise why arent others?
Lets not forget the actual known facts here, hes only been diagnosed with depression and anxiety, nothing else, no other health professional has deemed him a threat to himself or society, otherwise he'd have been sectioned. Therefore its wrong to claim that these could be the cause, before everything has been properly investigated.
Honestly i reckon one day we'll look back at peoples thoughts on mental health and be thoroughly ashamed of them, just like we do now on those who thought black people were below us and should be slaves.
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Ian
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Location: Liverpool
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For the record, I've not lumped every single person with a mental health issue in the same killer basket.
Nor have a great many regular people.
You'd be surprised how many people make up their own minds. I see you have no data to substantiate how many people will think worse of the mentally ill because of this article.
I would guess not many. And of those who do, so what, they're evidently thick anyway.
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Shell
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Registered: 14th Oct 08
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I think my point has been misconstrued somewhat. I feel the media plays into a public fear bred purely of ignorance that those with mental health issues are dangerous. That was the rather simple point I tried to make. I didn't realise I had to pull up evidence that mental health stigma is a raging issue in the UK. You may well be one of the sensible folk Ian and I commend you for that, but it's not a case of "so what" for the people that don't think as sensibly.
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JonnyJ
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
For the record, I've not lumped every single person with a mental health issue in the same killer basket.
Nor have a great many regular people.
You'd be surprised how many people make up their own minds. I see you have no data to substantiate how many people will think worse of the mentally ill because of this article.
I would guess not many. And of those who do, so what, they're evidently thick anyway.
Didnt say anywhere i was talking about this article in isolation, more its a continuing theme that only substantiates the stigma. The stigma isnt something Ive made up, you only have to look at the amount of campaigns going on right now to try reduce it to show its a problem. The sad thing is, you say people make up their own minds, but my experience is, they dont. They just go along with whatever they're told. The amount of what i would consider intelligent people that still think anyone sectioned in a mental health hospital is kept in a straight jacket and if let out they'd go on a murderous rampage is frankly scary. Its getting better but there is still massive amounts of ignorance around it and articles that lead with it as a possible reason for a mass killing spree, without any evidence that it could be the case, do not help. It makes people think that suffers are dangerous, when the actual truth is they arent, not to others anyway.
And its really not a case of "So what" for those that have to put up with being discriminated against because of their past/current mental health problems.
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
quote:
Originally posted by Ben G
I can't say i've noticed any normal decent hard working sane people go around shooting up or bombing people.
Either they're brainwashed by Allah or have ''mental issues''.
Why are you even attempting to potentially back someone who goes on a gun rampage? It's all well and good doing it in grand theft auto, but that isn't reality.
Hark working? Whats that got to do with it?  He had a job
Also where am i backing him? Please quote that bit.
You just seem to be putting forward an argument that has no particular relevance to this topic.
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Russ
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Location: Armchair
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quote:
Originally posted by FlaFFy_91
quote:
Originally posted by Russ
quote:
Originally posted by FlaFFy_91
Someone gets shot every single night in Liverpool...
no
unsure what your answer means?
listen to a liverpool radio station when the news comes on. everyday someone has been shot or knived in liverpool
hardly any of them actually make it onto national news or even the north west news
factually incorrect
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taylorboosh
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Registered: 3rd Apr 07
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Some big posts in here, if they gave all the nutjobs a carer or slave, say a black person so the work is on thier level - then i think we would no longer have issues like this
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FlaFFy_91
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Registered: 30th Sep 08
Location: Formby, Merseyside
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quote:
Originally posted by Russ
quote:
Originally posted by FlaFFy_91
quote:
Originally posted by Russ
quote:
Originally posted by FlaFFy_91
Someone gets shot every single night in Liverpool...
no
unsure what your answer means?
listen to a liverpool radio station when the news comes on. everyday someone has been shot or knived in liverpool
hardly any of them actually make it onto national news or even the north west news
factually incorrect
Ok. Change it to 5 out of 7 nights. Would be more correct I guess
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Eck
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Registered: 17th Apr 06
Location: Lundin Links, Fife
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I was going to comment until I saw the fucking size of some posts I'm out.
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Russ
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Location: Armchair
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quote:
Originally posted by FlaFFy_91
quote:
Originally posted by Russ
quote:
Originally posted by FlaFFy_91
quote:
Originally posted by Russ
quote:
Originally posted by FlaFFy_91
Someone gets shot every single night in Liverpool...
no
unsure what your answer means?
listen to a liverpool radio station when the news comes on. everyday someone has been shot or knived in liverpool
hardly any of them actually make it onto national news or even the north west news
factually incorrect
Ok. Change it to 5 out of 7 nights. Would be more correct I guess
i'm going to require links to statistics im afraid or else i will think you are a daily mail reader
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FlaFFy_91
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Location: Formby, Merseyside
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http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/man-seriously-injured-hospital-after-6923439
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/rebecca-ferguson-shocked-terrified-after-6925405
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/two-men-treated-hospital-after-6911051
Quick search. There's 3 this month?
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Russ
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doesnt equate to one every night of the year
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FlaFFy_91
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Registered: 30th Sep 08
Location: Formby, Merseyside
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That's why I changed my statement...
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Russ
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twice.
first from a shooting every night, then you included knife crime.
[Edited on 06-04-2014 by Russ]
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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I thought scousers just stole radio's and alloys?
I didn't think they'd have the brain power to do anything else.
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FlaFFy_91
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Registered: 30th Sep 08
Location: Formby, Merseyside
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quote:
Originally posted by Russ
twice.
first from a shooting every night, then you included knife crime.
[Edited on 06-04-2014 by Russ]
So it was slightly exaggerated?
Still. There's hundreds of shootings and stabbings in Liverpool that go unnreported... And guns are illegal in England.
Just because there legal in America doesn't make it any more Likley to happen
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Russ
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Tiger
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quote:
Originally posted by FlaFFy_91
.. And guns are illegal in England.
Untrue statement.
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FlaFFy_91
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quote:
Originally posted by Tiger
quote:
Originally posted by FlaFFy_91
.. And guns are illegal in England.
Untrue statement.
Really?
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FlaFFy_91
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Registered: 30th Sep 08
Location: Formby, Merseyside
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quote:
Originally posted by Russ
Don't get it?
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Tiger
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Registered: 12th Jun 01
Location: Leicestershire Drives:Astra VXR
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I've got a gun?
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Russ
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Registered: 14th Mar 04
Location: Armchair
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quote:
Originally posted by FlaFFy_91
quote:
Originally posted by Russ
Don't get it?
because you are a bit simple mate
in 2007:
there were 41 deaths by firearms in the E&W
9,146 in the US....
60% of all US murders that year were from firearms vs 6.6% of E&W murders
the US were the most armed civilian population on the planet, E&W were 88th
[Edited on 06-04-2014 by Russ]
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FlaFFy_91
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Location: Formby, Merseyside
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The us is a lot larger than the uk so there's obviously going to be more. Also there's a lot more gangs there.
But anyway. I'm not saying the us is safe when it comes to gun crime.
What I'm saying is everyone always straight away blames the fact that guns are legal. Persoanlly think it's aload of shite
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