Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Pop
Hammer - I will hold my hands up and say I don't know enough about the history to pass comment, however, the Scottish vote has aligned with the parties voted into power.
I am not against you voting for independence, I would be keen on democracy in your shoes. I would question if the people pushing for it can be trusted any more or less than the ones you so passionately dislike in Westminster though.
The reward is massive, but at what cost?
I don't trust the SNP or Salmond, I've never voted for either. They are a means to an end. I think how people see Salmond is wrong and I believe he wants the best for Scotland but I also don't doubt he's self-centered and thinks he'll have a statue in bronze if he leads us to Independence. Small price to pay.
I would like our Country to be ran by a party that represents the people i.e. a proper Labour party that represents its founding roots and not the one we have been landed with just now ran by idiots that may as well be an annex of the Tories. I believe that's what will happen from the 1st Election.
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Pop
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Registered: 8th May 03
Location: Reading
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I agree with you that without doubt Labour would be voted in.
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
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I don't think that Salmond even thinks it's a good idea any more.
[Edited on 14-09-2014 by alan-g-w]
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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quote:
Originally posted by alan-g-w
I don't think that Salmond even thinks it's a good idea any more.
[Edited on 14-09-2014 by alan-g-w]
Why is that Alan?
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rustyarchs
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Registered: 29th Aug 04
Location: scotland
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Dammit I seem to be missing so much but I must say Hammer you are an excellent job without me anyway 
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
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And in reply Hammer, I don't think we'll prosper whether independent or not. The whole of Britain is just starting to get back on its feet economically wise and this is just going to throw uncertainty back into the picture.if there was a concrete case for independence being better for Scotland as a nation I'd be willing to be swayed - the fact is that there's a wishy washy, ultimately sketchy plan in place. I'm not wilking to risk my future and the potential future of my fellow countrymen.
It's just far too big a decision to make when there are so many disputed facts. Added to this the fact that we would be able to hold another referendum in the future if we were in such a position to do so makes this seem like a hurried, quickly put together effort at breaking up the United Kingdom.
Voting no.
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammer
- Supermarket prices will go up - the Supermarkets say otherwise.
John Lewis, ASDA and Sainsburys have all said that rises in food costs could be possible following independence. Only Tesco appear to be sitting on the fence with their press release which stated, "we'll continue to offer the best prices whatever the outcome of the referendum" - so not a definite yes but neither is it a no.
quote:
Originally posted by Hammer
- Postage will go up - the Scottish Government has said it won't and they will subsidise the shortfall if required until it's brought back into public ownership.
What are they subsidising exactly? As i imagine postage will go up between Scotland and the UK (and visa versa) as it'll be classed as international postage, same as it is between ROI and the UK.
quote:
Originally posted by Hammer
- The banks are all moving to London - they're not, they're putting contingencies in place to change a Registered address and the processes and jobs will remain.
As you say, the banks are simply moving registered addresses for BoE and tax purposes. Although have the banks confirmed there won't be any operational and job/staff changes? As i always thought directors and financial 'heads' (at least) have to reside in the businesses operational country 
quote:
Originally posted by Hammer
- We will lose tax revenues when the above happens - we won't, corporation tax is paid on revenue generated in a particular Country not where their Head Office is. The reporting of this point in particular, by supposedly clever people, embarrassing.
In a similar vain, wouldn't businesses be open to Double Taxation?
quote:
Originally posted by Hammer
- There's no oil left - there is oil left, even by the most pessimistic estimates. It's a finite resource, however, Norway have a fund of 1 trillion Euros built up within a period of time shorter than those pessimistic estimates are suggesting North Sea supplies will run out. Our GDP per capita is comparable to the UK's without the oil anyway.
Don't know a huge amount about the remaining oil in the North Sea fields but obviously the country cannot rely solely on the oil industry because, as you've mentioned, it's an finite resource.
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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quote:
Originally posted by alan-g-w
And in reply Hammer, I don't think we'll prosper whether independent or not. The whole of Britain is just starting to get back on its feet economically wise and this is just going to throw uncertainty back into the picture.if there was a concrete case for independence being better for Scotland as a nation I'd be willing to be swayed - the fact is that there's a wishy washy, ultimately sketchy plan in place. I'm not wilking to risk my future and the potential future of my fellow countrymen.
It's just far too big a decision to make when there are so many disputed facts. Added to this the fact that we would be able to hold another referendum in the future if we were in such a position to do so makes this seem like a hurried, quickly put together effort at breaking up the United Kingdom.
Voting no.
You are risking your future and the future of your fellow Countrymen, you just don't realise it yet. Take a widespread scope of opinion, not one person will tell you Scotland can't afford to go it alone - including; Darling, Cameron, Davidson, Brown or anyone else that's been asked the question. It then stands to reason the economic debate isn't the underlying issue these people don't want the Union split.
We voted to be an Independent nation 30 odd years ago and were refused it through a technicality, this is also the longest campaign in modern British democratic history - a hurried, quickly put together, effort is exactly the opposite of what it is. It sounds to me as if you are actively grasping for any reason you can.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
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Hammer sounds like one of those people that have been brainwashed by a religious cult at a church and is arguing that God exists merely because people can't prove he doesn't.
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
John Lewis, ASDA and Sainsburys have all said that rises in food costs could be possible following independence. Only Tesco appear to be sitting on the fence with their press release which stated, "we'll continue to offer the best prices whatever the outcome of the referendum" - so not a definite yes but neither is it a no.
Lidl, Aldi, Morrisons, Waitrose, M&S??? We live in a free market economy and competition dictates price rises and drops. None of those companies will risk market share by promoting a fear tactic. What they are saying is factually correct, of course, yet so is what Wetherspoons are saying - the price of alcohol and food could go down. That exists whether there was uncertainty through a Referendum or not. Basic economics.
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
What are they subsidising exactly? As i imagine postage will go up between Scotland and the UK (and visa versa) as it'll be classed as international postage, same as it is between ROI and the UK.
The cost of incoming and outgoing post to rural areas e.g. Highlands and Islands. GB soaks that cost implication up as a general rule. It's a nothing point as I've said though, we will have a Royal Mail owned by us not shareholders fairly quickly.
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
As you say, the banks are simply moving registered addresses for BoE and tax purposes. Although have the banks confirmed there won't be any operational and job/staff changes? As i always thought directors and financial 'heads' (at least) have to reside in the businesses operational country
RBS have stated unequivocally jobs and processes will remain unchanged. There is also a difference between an HQ and a registered address. Lloyds TSB have a brass plaque on The Mound in Edinburgh to signify that's their registered address, that's literally what it is - a brass plaque. We don't see any Corporation Tax revenue generated through their HQ in London.
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
In a similar vain, wouldn't businesses be open to Double Taxation?
In a word, no.
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
Don't know a huge amount about the remaining oil in the North Sea fields but obviously the country cannot rely solely on the oil industry because, as you've mentioned, it's an finite resource.
There's more there than has been extracted. Our current government recommends following the Norwegian model of building an Oil Fund which can then be used to strengthen other areas i.e. renewables, oil exploration R&D etc etc... So when the oil is gone its legacy is everything else it has paid for which negates its loss.
The North Sea isn't everything either http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/9602-extent-of-oil-reserves-off-scotlands-west-coast-set-to-be-examined
We are the only Nation in history that has had oil and it is depicted as a negative burden. Which says it all.
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Hammer sounds like one of those people that have been brainwashed by a religious cult at a church and is arguing that God exists merely because people can't prove he doesn't.
You sound like a 30+ year old that lives with his parents, glues things onto cars at the weekend on their driveway then sits in his pants on the internet all day antagonising people but that's none of my business 
I think you'd vote Yes if you lived here, you'd get to stick a wee Saltire on your model helicopter thing and fly it about. Yippee.
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ShEp
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Registered: 9th Aug 05
Location: Dingwall, Highland
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All the price rises are pish tbh.
I have to pay international postage to get stuff to where I am anyway,
And the likes of ASDA, JL & Sainsburys, ASDA is the only one this far north, and it's shite anyway,
Why it will cost them more to get the produce up here when they bang on about local produce from the local area baffles me.
The oil situation make me 
I work in the industry, and we have untapped resources that none of the men in suits know the quantity of,....What I can tell you though is...
There is a new drilling company which was funded over a billion pounds by the UK government to build 10drilling rigs, to work off Shetland, Cameron was up visiting the area a matter of weeks ago trying to keep a tin lid on it, he didn't want it adding weight to the yes campaign.
However Bp let it slip on social media, but it's not being reported on national news, it's most likely the biggest oil discovery the UK has ever been involved in, And it came around just in time to line our pockets
Thanks for the billion to build the rigs, we're off 
Yes vote from me.
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baza31
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Registered: 19th Apr 03
Location: yorkshire
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England should let them go alone . Then in another few years when they are all eating grass and drinking out of lakes we should go take it back and send all it's people to Southern Ireland .
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Cavey
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Registered: 11th Nov 02
Location: Derby
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Political guru David Beckham has put his support behind the No campaign.
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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the people pushing independence is of no consequence. SNP/Salmond especially will most likely be voted out at the first chance.
People can see further than Salmond, its not just about him. Its about Scotland having its own country back, and being in charge of its own destiny.
Romantic, maybe...... but hard to argue against if people having that feeling.
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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Clair Field (West of Shetland) - why is everyone banging on about it being a new discovery. I think I worked on a BP/Clair project about 10 years ago and its size then was known as massive..... and the first platform was already in production. Clair 'ridge' is the expansion which must be getting touted as the 'new' discovery.
Its not new.... just becoming more economically viable I presume.
There is 30+ years left in Oil.
When I was growing up (in Aberdeen) I remember the doom and gloom stories about the oil running out in 10-15 years. That was 20years ago.
I think its safe to say that most people acknowledge there is about 50% reserves left with ever increasing technology to enable the realisation of these reserves. Thats a lot of money.
The rUK will probably be worse hit that Scotland if the Yes vote wins. I imagine both will have a period of instability though.
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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Want a Scottish based opinion..... worth mentioning that alot of these opinions are from people in Aberdeen.
http://trackscotland.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6378&start=0
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammer
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Hammer sounds like one of those people that have been brainwashed by a religious cult at a church and is arguing that God exists merely because people can't prove he doesn't.
You sound like a 30+ year old that lives with his parents, glues things onto cars at the weekend on their driveway then sits in his pants on the internet all day antagonising people but that's none of my business
I think you'd vote Yes if you lived here, you'd get to stick a wee Saltire on your model helicopter thing and fly it about. Yippee.
That's because I am
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ShEp
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Registered: 9th Aug 05
Location: Dingwall, Highland
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quote:
Originally posted by baza31
England should let them go alone . Then in another few years when they are all eating grass and drinking out of lakes we should go take it back and send all it's people to Southern Ireland .
You really expect that to happen?
I doubt it, but still it beats stealing money from peoples lofts! 
[Edited on 15-09-2014 by ShEp]
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smcGSI16V
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Registered: 26th May 03
Location: Farnborough Drives: Thurlby 888 CDTi No.98
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quote:
Originally posted by alan-g-w
And in reply Hammer, I don't think we'll prosper whether independent or not. The whole of Britain is just starting to get back on its feet economically wise and this is just going to throw uncertainty back into the picture.if there was a concrete case for independence being better for Scotland as a nation I'd be willing to be swayed - the fact is that there's a wishy washy, ultimately sketchy plan in place. I'm not wilking to risk my future and the potential future of my fellow countrymen.
It's just far too big a decision to make when there are so many disputed facts. Added to this the fact that we would be able to hold another referendum in the future if we were in such a position to do so makes this seem like a hurried, quickly put together effort at breaking up the United Kingdom.
Voting no.
I like your reasonings why you are voting no. Its not a brain washed ideology or ifs and buts.
Its a common persons thoughts, and tbh as an English person i don't care what Scotland does. But what I do know is that I have heard no deffinate answers about major problems that will affect Scotland being independant. It all seems like guess work and we will worry about it when people vote yes.
On such a major decision to affect not only yourselves but the Scots for hundreds of years to come, these items should have had definate answers long ago.
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baza31
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Registered: 19th Apr 03
Location: yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by ShEp
quote:
Originally posted by baza31
England should let them go alone . Then in another few years when they are all eating grass and drinking out of lakes we should go take it back and send all it's people to Southern Ireland .
You really expect that to happen?
I doubt it, but still it beats stealing money from peoples lofts!
[Edited on 15-09-2014 by ShEp]
Hopefully yes .Then we can all laugh when your hands are held up admitting you can't stand on your own two feet and most likely try to back pedal .
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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From that response I take it you have no desire to retain a union? Do you have any idea/clue what Scotland brings to the UK?
There are clueless morons on both sides.
Fuck the English - FREEDOM etc etc etc
Fuck the Scottish - We're sick of supporting them.
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Steve
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Only reason I have any "fuck the Scottish" feelings, is because they are going around thinking they are better than us
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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There's about 70 Countries that have gained Independence from Great Britain.
How many of those 70 have regretted the decision or asked to be brought under GB rule?
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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them and us.....
Imagine you are Scottish for a second. We do get treated like second class citizens by some, and told what to do and when by a government not of our choosing in another country so I know where some of the ill feeling comes from. Its not as bad as it used to be (hatred of English in certain areas) but it still exists
I can completely understand the principles behind wanting our own country back. I think I'd prefer more answers at this point though rather than assumptions and unanswered questions. That goes for both parties by the way.
What are England going to do IF Scotland leaves? It should not just be what are Scotland going to do should they gain independance
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