AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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a std or well thought out C20LET would be just as good on track as a C20XE
Sticky tyres, LSD...... help a lot, and are needed for a C20XE too.
If you're coming out of corners and you cant stop it wheelspining you shouldnt be on track. 
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jr
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Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
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Mr kindness has a very good poibt, drive smoothly and wheelspinning shouldnt even come into it
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pomada
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Registered: 20th Sep 03
Location: Brasil
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quote:
Originally posted by AK
a std or well thought out C20LET would be just as good on track as a C20XE
Sticky tyres, LSD...... help a lot, and are needed for a C20XE too.
If you're coming out of corners and you cant stop it wheelspining you shouldnt be on track.
Where do I sign? 
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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Im not saying that at all, i just know what the bandwagon people are like on here.
True, theres thousands more who would put what little knowledge i have to shame, but i know my Corsas.
Also, i think we're looking at different things here. Your talking about a 160bhp odd 1.6 16v, and a 2.0...
I was talking with regards to a 2.0 and 2.0 turbo..
Your friend is running on alchole, damn im sure you guys are getting it so much cheaper than what we are... Theres only a few "road cars" that are prepped to run that fuel over here. Running this fuel for 20-30+ minutes on a race track will work out to be rather expensive, i'd hate to see the fuel bill at the end of the whole day!!!
No, i mean parts are expensive to buy, things are VERY expensive to machine. W're paying nearl £1 per LITRE of fuel as it is.... (unsure on exhange rates).
Turbo engine win races when driving the Rear or all 4 wheels.... NOT on a FWD Corsa weighing like 900kg...... The car is a poor platform to start with.
Don't get me wrong, fast road, no corsa is goign to beat LET corsa, especially not a 2.0 (see below for 2.0 Vs 2.0 Turbo performance difference). I know its lot quicker, but as i say, its about using and applying that power, and a C20LET does not put the power down to the road that well.
We can spin our LET in 4th gear, now you put 1/2 that throttle pressure, in 2nd gear, from a tight corner, whats going to happen?
Dollop of torque comes in, wheels start spinning, either come off throttle or change gear, either way, you'll loose out on the exit speed of the corner. You won't suffer this problem with a NA engine.
I've already said im not disputing that a turbo car is faster, im saying a Turbo'd Corsa won't be faster, im talking car specific here, not a generalisation....
[Edited on 20-12-2006 by VXR]
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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daimo....
I can drive flat out in 2nd gear out of a hairpin with 190lbft. No spin
A diff and sticky tyres.
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pomada
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Registered: 20th Sep 03
Location: Brasil
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Well, in the beginig of 90's fwd cars, hatchs like Escort, VW Gol (similar to polo), Fiat Uno, VW Passat raced here on the Division3 series, turbocharged, runing on powers like 300hp and six speed gearbox.
Two years of great races and the organization banned turbo due to "cost" reasons they say. The cars, with the same slick tyres, same regulation, only without turbo, clocked very very poor lap times...for years untill the weak championship died.
I can't tell you the lateral G's they where achieving on turbo and n/a setup...maybe you can tell us! Not about this example of course, about a example you have.
If you are spining and spining without stop take of the power will not be a "active action", it will be a "reactive action". Reactive ations are always slower on a race track than a ative action.
What I'm trying to say is: looks like your turbo car does not have the right set up for what you are doing! Perhaps you need to re-think the dampers, springs, differential, tyres, wheels size, wheight distribution, gear relation and all other things you can do working yourself without the help of Gordon Murray.
Even turbo type and size are important, so as pressure and torque range...
Cheers
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=2069821583985940032&hl=en-GB
2nd gear, out of a hairpin.....
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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NA smooth progressive power adam..
You don't have 190lb ft at 3000rpm do you (or standard LET 200lb ft, a LOT more if phase 2), its spread out accross the range, probably your torque/power line crosses at what, 5000rpm ish?? (give or take a thou). That means you can get the power down smoothly as it goes up in a smooth line, not flat BOOOM loads of torque.
Your also talking about the last hairpin before the start/fin straight at knockhill arn't you 
Totally off topic now from Teddys original post  But still a good topic this 
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
We can spin our LET in 4th gear, now you put 1/2 that throttle pressure, in 2nd gear, from a tight corner, whats going to happen?
Dollop of torque comes in, wheels start spinning, either come off throttle or change gear, either way, you'll loose out on the exit speed of the corner. You won't suffer this problem with a NA engine.
[Edited on 20-12-2006 by VXR]
4th gear!! You must be trying to get the car to wheelspin, or in the wet understeering.... or shite tyres. Or with more than std power.
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Ant
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Registered: 12th May 02
Location: Hereford and Worcester
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wouldnt want to be below 5000 RPM anyway....
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Your also talking about the last hairpin before the start/fin straight at knockhill arn't you
and?
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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quote:
Originally posted by pomada
Well, in the beginig of 90's fwd cars, hatchs like Escort, VW Gol (similar to polo), Fiat Uno, VW Passat raced here on the Division3 series, turbocharged, runing on powers like 300hp and six speed gearbox.
Two years of great races and the organization banned turbo due to "cost" reasons they say. The cars, with the same slick tyres, same regulation, only without turbo, clocked very very poor lap times...for years untill the weak championship died.
I can't tell you the lateral G's they where achieving on turbo and n/a setup...maybe you can tell us! Not about this example of course, about a example you have.
If you are spining and spining without stop take of the power will not be a "active action", it will be a "reactive action". Reactive ations are always slower on a race track than a ative action.
What I'm trying to say is: looks like your turbo car does not have the right set up for what you are doing! Perhaps you need to re-think the dampers, springs, differential, tyres, wheels size, wheight distribution, gear relation and all other things you can do working yourself without the help of Gordon Murray.
Even turbo type and size are important, so as pressure and torque range...
Cheers
I'd agree the cost issues. AS i say, we're talking costs here, its not goign to have thousands of pounds spent on developing it into the ultimate FWD track car, im assuming its going to be a fun thing.
I agree, a lot of things are in the setup, but the corsa is too short to make a good FWD turbo'd car.
And if your setting up a car for the track, it will be awfull on the road. Im also assuming Teddy wants to make it alive to and from the track days. I doubt he'll trailor it.
Sorry dude, i think your just looking far to far into it, the funds won't be unlimited, there won't be unlimited testing time. Im still "assuming" (we know what they say about that ) that Teddy wants to just have fun with it and won't be going that far into it.
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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quote:
Originally posted by AK
quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Your also talking about the last hairpin before the start/fin straight at knockhill arn't you
and?
And?? Nothing, it wasa guess? Jesus Adam, stop trying to make a bloody row out of it.
Your really hate me don't you
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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quote:
Originally posted by Ant
wouldnt want to be below 5000 RPM anyway....
On a NA engine But sometimes it happens..
Im also assuming most people on here don't have straight cut boxes with alternative changeable ratios as well.......
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pomada
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Registered: 20th Sep 03
Location: Brasil
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quote:
Your friend is running on alchole, damn im sure you guys are getting it so much cheaper than what we are... Theres only a few "road cars" that are prepped to run that fuel over here. Running this fuel for 20-30+ minutes on a race track will work out to be rather expensive, i'd hate to see the fuel bill at the end of the whole day!!!
No, i mean parts are expensive to buy, things are VERY expensive to machine. W're paying nearl £1 per LITRE of fuel as it is.... (unsure on exhange rates).
My mate, yes run on alchool...but it's pointless, since here alchool is cheaper than gas. What I told you was an example that a turbo car can be fast and can be cheap.
Its a Uno, MONOPOINT INJECTOR, with a LATERAL FLOW header...made in home, by a person without half of the knowledge you are a passing us. And he did it. I'm not saying Tedy should do this way...but I'm showing that some things are tales.
Kind off-topic now, but not so much, since we still trying to find the best choice.
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pomada
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Registered: 20th Sep 03
Location: Brasil
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quote:
I'd agree the cost issues. AS i say, we're talking costs here, its not goign to have thousands of pounds spent on developing it into the ultimate FWD track car, im assuming its going to be a fun thing.
I agree, a lot of things are in the setup, but the corsa is too short to make a good FWD turbo'd car.
And if your setting up a car for the track, it will be awfull on the road. Im also assuming Teddy wants to make it alive to and from the track days. I doubt he'll trailor it.
Sorry dude, i think your just looking far to far into it, the funds won't be unlimited, there won't be unlimited testing time. Im still "assuming" (we know what they say about that ) that Teddy wants to just have fun with it and won't be going that far into it.
Man! For christ...stop to deffend Tedy's wallet. You keep saying it's expensive, it's expensive...pshh! It's not! Same cost to other modifications.
I gave you an example, very cheap...and you talk like I'm a prince of Brunnei or something. Test a car means ride a car. If the car goes to the track, you as a smart people, are testing. And modifing...that's not expensive, you would do that anyway!
And that's fun...if not, rent a bmw m3 and go to track!
Modify you own car is good, not bad...set up and drive is payless!
Machine this or that...tale! If you build a simple turbo engine it will be simple, fun and enjoyable on road and track...I'm not talking about the ultimate car as you saying, I'm talking about a simple car you go working on it. And that's not expensive as you keep saying.
Cheers!
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ShEp
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Registered: 9th Aug 05
Location: Dingwall, Highland
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i say either a 2.2 vectra engine or an 1800xe or xep,
something new and different
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
quote:
Originally posted by AK
quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Your also talking about the last hairpin before the start/fin straight at knockhill arn't you
and?
And?? Nothing, it wasa guess? Jesus Adam, stop trying to make a bloody row out of it.
Your really hate me don't you
just the way you wrote it. I thought you were implying that that corner somehow gave magical grip.
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Dave A
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Registered: 10th Dec 03
Location: County Durham
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ive messed with c20xe's done loads of x16xe's owned a z18xe corsa.....
If I were starting again I would get a nice low milage z18xe, some headwork, build some nice tb's, get it running right and then plenty of mapping. Im sure 170bhp will be pretty easy to get if done properly and then get some cams and take it from there.
pros: cheap to buy, straight forward fit, healthy amount of torque, light, not been done before, the benefits of tb's over turbos is massive, low milage are easy to find.......
cons: erm.... well.... apart from not being done much before (if at all in the uk?)
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ShEp
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Registered: 9th Aug 05
Location: Dingwall, Highland
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yeah, 170bhp from an 1800 will be lovely and reliable, amd could start a new craze in the uk
i.e. lots of money for u 
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Cupra Steve
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Registered: 7th Nov 06
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just to throw my opinion from my exp, i haven't read all of this, just skimmed it!
you should definately stay na. i think i could drive my 106 round a track quicker than my 200bhp ibiza, so much more driveable, plus i don't think there'd be much difference down the 1/4, after 100mph there'd be a huge difference but that's just my opinion.
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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quote:
Originally posted by Ant
damo turbo's have been outlawed from most forms of motorsport....
F1
BTCC
WRC
Just to name a few
Are you sure about that? 
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dhdev
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Registered: 22nd Dec 05
Location: Midlands
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Here's my thoughts.
No reason why a turbo would give bad traction, the throttle is adjustable, and changing gear means you can keep it on boost so no reason for a sudden surge?!
The problem I see with the turbo engine is front end weight, big downside. Add to this the cooling issues with having a red hot lump of metal under ur hood and its a big no-no for constant track use IMO. Lots more to go wrong with turbo engines due to the fact that there are more components. Simpler solutions are nearly always better.
I would recommend a 1.8 small block N/A. 170 bhp should be easily achievable without any negative weight issues, and trust me 170 bhp is plenty for some serious track fun
Also, why is torque such a big issue for u? If the car is prepped for track use (low weight) then torque isn't really an issue 
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Cupra Steve
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Registered: 7th Nov 06
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quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
Here's my thoughts.
No reason why a turbo would give bad traction, the throttle is adjustable, and changing gear means you can keep it on boost so no reason for a sudden surge?!
well if you come out of a corner in 2nd, at 2500revs, it'll spool up giving you a huge boot up the arse, which is why everyone who goes in something turbo thinks they're rapid due to this when quite often it's an illusion.
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dhdev
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Registered: 22nd Dec 05
Location: Midlands
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quote:
Originally posted by Cupra Steve
quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
Here's my thoughts.
No reason why a turbo would give bad traction, the throttle is adjustable, and changing gear means you can keep it on boost so no reason for a sudden surge?!
well if you come out of a corner in 2nd, at 2500revs, it'll spool up giving you a huge boot up the arse, which is why everyone who goes in something turbo thinks they're rapid due to this when quite often it's an illusion.
If ur at 2500rpm in second gear and on a track i think its time to change to first
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