willay
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you are right Daimo, that there must be torture happening in other countries, even more so in ones that are completely under goverment control and theres no getting away with it but it doesnt mean we should follow that curve, thats the reason our country is great (oooh thats going to upset people), and we have so much freedom and rights which is a Good Thing.
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Daimo B
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I agree,
but what im trying to say is...
Theres SO SO SO much worse torture going on in modern countries around the world, yet you hear nothing about it. No complaints, ni whinges...
These countries accept, if your gonna do something wrong, there is going to be a harsh penalty.
Steal somethign in some countries, and u'll have your hand chopped off. Torture, or conviction for your crime.
Now compared to that, dipping someones head in some water, really doesn't seem so bad?
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Daimo B
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All said without bringing anyones colour, religion, race, or ethnic background into the topic.............
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Daimo B
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My only major issue with it, is that some cases are not proved.....
But then these days, its so hard to prove someone of something.
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willay
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my only major issue is John is a racist and his country supports terrorists.
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willay
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and when I say country I mean the bit at the top of england thats full of hills with a "goverment"
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Colin
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If theres no threat of torture then these scum fucks will continue to do as they please!! Were too soft, like I pointed out if your convicted of being a westerner with intent to breath in some of these parts of the world you'll get your head chopped off!!
I was out drinking with some muslim guys last week, from Turkmenistan which borders Afghanistan, they were sound as humanly possible. Our chat turned to muslim extremists at one point in the night and they said they should just be shot on sight!!
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Sam
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
I agree,
but what im trying to say is...
Theres SO SO SO much worse torture going on in modern countries around the world, yet you hear nothing about it. No complaints, ni whinges...
These countries accept, if your gonna do something wrong, there is going to be a harsh penalty.
Steal somethign in some countries, and u'll have your hand chopped off. Torture, or conviction for your crime.
Now compared to that, dipping someones head in some water, really doesn't seem so bad?
These countries you speak of aren't Western countries though are they? Rightly or wrongly, they have different ways of meting out punishment, and these ways are determined by their culture and <a word I'm not allowed to mention in this thread>.
You would never see that sort of thing happening in places like the UK and USA etc.
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John
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quote:
Originally posted by willay
my only major issue is John is a racist and his country supports terrorists.
quote:
Originally posted by willay
and when I say country I mean the bit at the top of england thats full of hills with a "goverment"
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Colin
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The UK would sooner tickle a terror suspect to death than do something worthy which may lead to the retrieval of information which could save life...
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willay
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yes we should get rid of human rights.
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Colin
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If you act un-humanly then you shouldn't have any rights. An eye for an eye & all that!! 
Even in this country, if you commit 1st degree murder then you should be executed, if the glove fits wear it.
Theres no deterrent not to commit a crime, over here. Thats one thing the muslims have got knocked on the head. I bet they dont have prison overcrowding problems on a level we do!!
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willay
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Why should we sink to their level by killing people who have commit crimes? Havent you ever seen Batman?
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Dr Pepper
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
I agree,
but what im trying to say is...
Theres SO SO SO much worse torture going on in modern countries around the world, yet you hear nothing about it. No complaints, ni whinges...
These countries accept, if your gonna do something wrong, there is going to be a harsh penalty.
Steal somethign in some countries, and u'll have your hand chopped off. Torture, or conviction for your crime.
Now compared to that, dipping someones head in some water, really doesn't seem so bad?
Yes.....BUT
Backwards, emerging countries torturing their own citizens under their own rules after they have been proven guilty is one thing. We dont look to China for an example to follow - America are the ones on their moral high horse.
America invading other countries, kidnapping foreign nationals without a trial or any evidence in some cases, flying them secretly to other countries in exchange for money, aid - then torturing them there against international law is a very different thing.
Dont you think
[Edited on 25-08-2009 by Dr Pepper]
[Edited on 25-08-2009 by Dr Pepper]
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Colin
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quote:
Originally posted by willay
Why should we sink to their level by killing people who have commit crimes? Havent you ever seen Batman?
Brilliant film 
I still think a few killings would sort the place out. Make people think twice before committing a crime!!
They should make a standard list, so people know exactly what there up against, murder is the death penalty, GBH - kicking off a pack of chav's, adultery - repeated kicks in the stones, robbing Tesco - chinese burn.....etc 
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DaveyLC
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The problem is alot of these people havent even been found guilty of anything or tried in a court of law.. I bet most people here would have a paddy if they were falsely section 59'ed.. Now imagine if you were accused of being a terrorist, locked up for months and tortured..
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willay
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yeah that would be one hell of a thread Davey!!!
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DaveyLC
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I think the point VXR is missing is that torture is being used to make people confess because they dont have the evidence for a simple conviction so they could actually be torturing innocent people!
[Edited on 25-08-2009 by willay]
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DaveyLC
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booooooo.
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Colin
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They wont be picking up afgan goat herders and sending them to Guantanamo Bay though will they. They will have bloody good reason to send them there. I would say you lot working in London should be thankful such a place exists or the bombings a few years back might have been larger and more frequent!!
Everyone's quick to slam the efforts being made to stop terrorism but take for granted the fact they can walk to work without being blown up. Which at the end of the day is what these extremists want to do.
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willay
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need more bombs in london Colin, could get more time off work.
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willay
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I dont think any of the american torturing assisted with the arrests/busts of certain groups over here Colin, so I doubt we (people in london) have benefited. I'm all for stopping it, but not using illegal means (torturing)
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Colin
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You could get all the time off you want pretty boy if your in the right place at the right time should these brainwashed mentalists get freed to do as they wish!!
[Edited on 25-08-2009 by Colin]
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DaveyLC
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quote:
Originally posted by Colin
They wont be picking up afgan goat herders and sending them to Guantanamo Bay though will they. They will have bloody good reason to send them there. I would say you lot working in London should be thankful such a place exists or the bombings a few years back might have been larger and more frequent!!
Everyone's quick to slam the efforts being made to stop terrorism but take for granted the fact they can walk to work without being blown up. Which at the end of the day is what these extremists want to do.
Oh rubbish.. Its all self inflicted by our governments and then padded out with bullshit to keep us scared. Terrorism is the new controlling fear our governments used to inflict new and more controlling legislation upon the masses.
If we didnt interfere with other cultures there wouldnt be a problem.. Have you forgotten how the CIA ploughed millions if not billions into arming and training afgan's to fight the Russians during the cold war. Where do you think the taliban came from?
Do me a favour and educate yourself before you spurt more shit.
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Dr Pepper
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
The problem is alot of these people havent even been found guilty of anything or tried in a court of law.. I bet most people here would have a paddy if they were falsely section 59'ed.. Now imagine if you were accused of being a terrorist, locked up for months and tortured..
Even worse flown to some backwards country- imprisoned in the harshest conditions possible then told your family back home was going to be killed, raped - you would believe them...and you would say anything to get out--- be it true or false.
Torture doesnt prevent terrorism - heres what does
1- behaving like a responsible nation and not sh itting all over the middle east for our own gain
2- spending more money on intelligence and less on long range missiles
3- doing away with nuclear weapons and spending that money on rebuilding the countries we and america have flattened in the past 60 years.
4- Stop arming militias like the Taliban to do our dirty work for us
You do this then you might win a war on terror. What has been going on at the bay WILL RESULT IN FUTURE TERRORIST ATTROCITIES.
You can flush as many muslim heads down a bog as you want but that wont stop terrorsits wanting to hurt western countries.
[Edited on 25-08-2009 by Dr Pepper]
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