chris_uk
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Registered: 8th Jul 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Eh? That doesn't take into account fade or unsprung mass
were talking about road cars..
how many cars have you driven where you get brake fade? even my 1.0 nissan micra which i used to bomb about in everywhere never ever god fade and them discs were tiny!
your right tho, weight (which is unchanged in this case) would have an effect on the brakes as your trying to slow down more mass.
[Edited on 19-01-2012 by chris_uk]
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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No true. Goes back to what I said really wouldn't bother for just road use
[Edited on 19-01-2012 by Steve]
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big eck
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Registered: 20th Apr 03
Location: Tullibody. Drives - Audi B8 S4 & Fiesta Zetec-S
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I had 2ltr calipers on my old Corsa and they were pure shit. They faded very badly.
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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I've had fade in that Astra a few times.
Its a road car though so I just slow down, cheaper.
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big eck
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Registered: 20th Apr 03
Location: Tullibody. Drives - Audi B8 S4 & Fiesta Zetec-S
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The first time mine faded I ended up in the middle of a roundabout with a fucked alloy and the exhaust hanging off. It was the roundabout at the other end of the duel carriageway you all stayed at for the Corsa rr day lol.
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Mattb
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Registered: 2nd Feb 03
Location: Under your sisters bed
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To put this into some sort of context
Audi R8 V8 = 414bhp - 365mm front discs
Audi R8 V10 = 518bhp - 365mm front discs
Audi Q7 V12 TDI - 497 bhp - 415mm front discs
The extra power does not always warrent bigger brakes imo - vehicle weight certainly does.. it wouldnt hurt to upgrade brakes of course but RS4 brakes on a gold is a touch over kill imo - brake pedal will be shit and spongy as fook
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broster
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Registered: 6th Dec 02
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quote:
Originally posted by chris_uk
If you can lock your wheels up using standard brakes then there is no point in upgrading the brakes..
[Edited on 19-01-2012 by chris_uk]
i dont agree, on many cars i have driven you could lock the wheels up at a given speed, once, after that they are crap.
i do agree that disc and pads combinations play a huge part in it, but in my eyes bigger brakes can sometimes be worth more to a car than an extra 20-30bhp.
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broster
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Registered: 6th Dec 02
Location: Drives: E39
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quote:
Originally posted by Mattb
To put this into some sort of context
Audi R8 V8 = 414bhp - 365mm front discs
Audi R8 V10 = 518bhp - 365mm front discs
Audi Q7 V12 TDI - 497 bhp - 415mm front discs
The extra power does not always warrent bigger brakes imo - vehicle weight certainly does.. it wouldnt hurt to upgrade brakes of course but RS4 brakes on a gold is a touch over kill imo - brake pedal will be shit and spongy as fook
what about manufacturing costs? surely its cheaper for audi to leave the same brakes on a v8 as it is a v10 R8, no need for chassis changes, just different wheels and engine, job done (in simple terms)
why go to the extend of designing new brakes and testing etc etc when the current brakes meet all current safety laws with stopping distances and life span etc. would the car benefit from better brakes?
[Edited on 19-01-2012 by broster]
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Dave
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Registered: 26th Feb 01
Location: Lancs
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But surely that is a perfect example of why they aren't needed in most cases.
If Audi see fit to use the same brakes on the same type of car, but one has noticeably more power than the other (and a bit extra weight in this case) then why should someone bolting a turbo to their Golf/Corrado suddenly feel the need to fit huge rotors?
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broster
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Registered: 6th Dec 02
Location: Drives: E39
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so what were saying is increasing power doesn't mean you need bigger brakes?
seriously?
keep the standard suspension too, no need to change springs and dampers and bushes. they go round corners as standard.
i think the audi example is a good example that manufacturers don't see the need to spend money developing something when the current setup works to a safety standard.
[Edited on 19-01-2012 by broster]
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Mattb
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It certainly is cheaper, but if the brakes werent up to the job they would change them - Audi arent the kind of manufacturer that scrimps in these kind of areas - if the V10 needed bigger brakes regardless of safety laws etc then it would have got them..
To be fair i have never felt that the V10 needs better brakes when i have driven them - however there is the ceramics option which are brilliant - but not necessary for the road imo
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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All of what you are saying is correct broster just that you won't be locking up wheels and driving on the limits on the road lol
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broster
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Registered: 6th Dec 02
Location: Drives: E39
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
All of what you are saying is correct broster just that you won't be locking up wheels and driving on the limits on the road lol
iv done one skid this year.
i know you don't drive on the limits on the road, but upping power without looking at a brake upgrade is a bit daft IMO.
more power means looking at brakes and suspension IMO. but then iv worked in an industry for 6 years where you get a bit more of an insight into it where you see how bigger brakes are needed when power is increased on a road car.
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Dave
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Registered: 26th Feb 01
Location: Lancs
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Not that simply, what I'm saying is if your brakes that you have now work fine, increasing bhp isn't suddenly going to change that and make the car unsafe.
If you have a 1ltr Corsa with tiny discs and stick a LET in it then yes, it makes sense to upgrade brakes. If you already own the high performance model of that range then you probably already have good enough brakes. If you want to upgrade just to get better braking like you'd upgrade suspension for better handling fair enough but to say the standard brakes aren't safe just because you've upped power is wrong IMO.
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Mattb
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Registered: 2nd Feb 03
Location: Under your sisters bed
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quote:
Originally posted by broster
so what were saying is increasing power doesn't mean you need bigger brakes?
seriously?
keep the standard suspension too, no need to change springs and dampers and bushes. they go round corners as standard.
i think the audi example is a good example that manufacturers don't see the need to spend money developing something when the current setup works to a safety standard.
[Edited on 19-01-2012 by broster]
No definately not!! im saying the RS4 brakes on a golf 1/2/3 is overkill - of course with more power there is going to be problems with brake fade from speed - best solution is going to be bigger brakes etc
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broster
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Registered: 6th Dec 02
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im not saying they are unsafe I'm saying that it would need addressing in the same way that the "power" issue would have been addressed.
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Jambo
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Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Not that simply, what I'm saying is if your brakes that you have now work fine, increasing bhp isn't suddenly going to change that and make the car unsafe.
If you have a 1ltr Corsa with tiny discs and stick a LET in it then yes, it makes sense to upgrade brakes. If you already own the high performance model of that range then you probably already have good enough brakes. If you want to upgrade just to get better braking like you'd upgrade suspension for better handling fair enough but to say the standard brakes aren't safe just because you've upped power is wrong IMO.
Put into words what i was trying (badly) to say 
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Mattb
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Registered: 2nd Feb 03
Location: Under your sisters bed
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on a side note wheres this thread? i wonder if he wants to but some R8 discs that i need to sell.. 
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broster
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Registered: 6th Dec 02
Location: Drives: E39
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quote:
Originally posted by Mattb
quote:
Originally posted by broster
so what were saying is increasing power doesn't mean you need bigger brakes?
seriously?
keep the standard suspension too, no need to change springs and dampers and bushes. they go round corners as standard.
i think the audi example is a good example that manufacturers don't see the need to spend money developing something when the current setup works to a safety standard.
[Edited on 19-01-2012 by broster]
No definately not!! im saying the RS4 brakes on a golf 1/2/3 is overkill - of course with more power there is going to be problems with brake fade from speed - best solution is going to be bigger brakes etc
on a standard car maybe, but on a vr6 with a turbo conversion?
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
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i bet its a pissy little low pressure turbo conversion anyway
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Mattb
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Registered: 2nd Feb 03
Location: Under your sisters bed
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only if its going to be a silly power conversion - like circa 500 bhp (imo)
dont see why 312mm TT brakes wouldnt be sufficiant
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Dave
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Registered: 26th Feb 01
Location: Lancs
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If the car was a VR6 as standard then probably yes as it will already have better brakes than other models in the range. For road use only you could look at getting pads that can cope with more heat if you are going to be driving it hard but fitting brakes that were designed for a large saloon with a V8 engine (I assume) is overkill.
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broster
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Registered: 6th Dec 02
Location: Drives: E39
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they do respond well to turbo and supercharger conversions on the vr6. driven a few over the years and always been impressed!
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WATSON
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Registered: 16th Jun 05
Location: Fife, Scotland
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My mate runs standard brakes on his 700bhp mr2, His wee brother runs alcon brakes on his 350bhp skyline 
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CorsAsh
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Registered: 19th Apr 02
Location: Munich
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Track use = Bigger brakes needed.
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