Budgie
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Registered: 2nd Dec 09
Location: Basingstoke
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raptors just gone past 
not to shabby workin near farnbo air field 
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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quote:
Originally posted by Ste W
This is a difficult one and one where people assume stealth has a part to play in a dog fight or even long range air interception.
What you need to remember, is for a stealth plane to 'see' it's enemy it has to use RADAR, which transmits a high powered radio wave. This is easily detected by a Eurofighters avionics and using mono-pulse interferometry it can pin point where the stealth plane is. Basically it is like someone completely in the dark in black overalls. to see you they need to shine a torch. so you now see them.
Stealth is useful for bombers to avoid Radar guided AA but nowadays we have enough capability that we already know where the radar sites are so can fly around them or high enough that they pose no threat. Bombs now use guidance so can be released higher up and wind etc has no effect on them as they steer themselves to target.
Also, remember, the Raptor and Eurofighter carry basically the same air intercept missiles but the Eurofighter carries more of them as it doesn't need to hide them away. And the most succesful missile is the AIM 9L sidewinder which detects heat. the Raptor still emits a huge heat signature as the engines need to be so powerful due to its massive drag.
Still I think the EFA would win. Stealth is so over rated.
I did wonder this. When I done air exp at RAF Manston (wanted to be a fly boy ), the chaps were telling us how our old radar systems could pick up stealth aircraft, they displayed up as a small or light aircraft, but as small aircraft do about 150mph, the stealths are doing a fair bit more, so easily noticable. That was before a personnel flyby of 2 F16's doing the "coast run" (London, round the coast of Kent to margate, and round and back to Dover). Superb experience.
Also, both aircraft would fall out the sky if the computers switched off, but the EF is designed to be twitchy as you say, and the F22 not like that at all. I remember the F22 plans back in the early 80's. Eurofighter was in it too. had a really good book about modern/future aircraft and they were in it. So was the C5 etc as well. F22 was a computer picture back then though 
So, really, the EF would whoop the F22's ass. The only way the F22 would have a real advantage is to stick one of those VTOL systems like they tried on the F23?
[Edited on 19-07-2010 by Daimo B]
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Ste
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Registered: 5th Mar 03
Location: Taif, Saudi Arabia
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It is impossible for them to be completely invisible to RADAR as there will always be some part of the aircraft reflecting. Only on a stealth, they limit this as much as possible.
I know people who have seen stealth aircraft on RADAR and say they show up about the size of a goose. But travelling at 1000mph.
Don't forget, Raptor is designed to be the Americans export 5th gen aircraft. It wouldn't be that good that it would beat any of their current fleet!
I would rather lose by a mile because i built my own car, than win by an inch because someone else built it for me.
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Ste
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Location: Taif, Saudi Arabia
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Also, do you mean VTOL or vectored thrust?
I would rather lose by a mile because i built my own car, than win by an inch because someone else built it for me.
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Daimo B
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Well, the F23 doesn't really use VTOL so much, its more vectored thrust isn't it?
When you say 5th Gen, then surely it should be able to beat all the current USAF fleet shouldn't it?
The current generation of American fighters is really immense.
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Ste
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Registered: 5th Mar 03
Location: Taif, Saudi Arabia
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5th gen Raptor is a bit like an Iphone4, better features than the previous model, but still not a patch on the competition.
I would rather lose by a mile because i built my own car, than win by an inch because someone else built it for me.
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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This exact scenario is being discussed on Pistonheads at the moment.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=191&t=879172&mid=104831&nmt=EuroFighter Tycoon
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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quote:
Originally posted by Ste W
5th gen Raptor is a bit like an Iphone4, better features than the previous model, but still not a patch on the competition.
How to sum it up perfectly
All the toys, looks great on paper, but vs a good old Nokia 3310, that can be thrown against the wall, dropped in soup, soaked in water, and dried in the airing cupboard, and still come out fighting and working.
tbh, like a lot of cars these days too really.
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Budgie
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Registered: 2nd Dec 09
Location: Basingstoke
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quick question
does anybody remember or know of an old plane that looked liked its wings were on backwards
instead of sweeping backwards like most they went forwards 
or am i just making things up again?
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Ste
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Registered: 5th Mar 03
Location: Taif, Saudi Arabia
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People seem to forget. Buying military planes isn't like buying a TV. The RAF and government set out what they need from an aircraft then put it out to tender. The company that comes back with the best package gets the contract. You have the greatest military minds and the worlds best engineers designing an aircraft to be the best at a number of jobs then some kids on the internet decide something else would be better suited to our defence needs.
I would rather lose by a mile because i built my own car, than win by an inch because someone else built it for me.
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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quote:
Originally posted by Budgie
quick question
does anybody remember or know of an old plane that looked liked its wings were on backwards
instead of sweeping backwards like most they went forwards
or am i just making things up again?
Edit
X29, not X50. Was a NASA experimental aircraft.
I've got a photo of one from the NASA centre in Florida, but can't get to my FB.
[Edited on 19-07-2010 by Daimo B]
[Edited on 19-07-2010 by Daimo B]
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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quote:
Originally posted by Ste W
People seem to forget. Buying military planes isn't like buying a TV. The RAF and government set out what they need from an aircraft then put it out to tender. The company that comes back with the best package gets the contract. You have the greatest military minds and the worlds best engineers designing an aircraft to be the best at a number of jobs then some kids on the internet decide something else would be better suited to our defence needs.
I wouldn't say that. I'd just say watch some Stargate or something and use that stuff.
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FAZ
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Registered: 24th Nov 07
Location: Coventry
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russians made one as well no mig 47?
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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Russians claimed they made it first, it was a Sukhoi S-37. Big hoo har over the fact the Americans copied their forward wing design.
But in fact, they were both 40 years behined.......
Yup
Mans worst nightmare...
Or not in terms of technology, Ze Germans...
Ju 287
[Edited on 19-07-2010 by Daimo B]
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Budgie
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Registered: 2nd Dec 09
Location: Basingstoke
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thanks i was thinking of the russian one.
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
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Speaking of Germans being miles ahead of the game, say about 70 years ahead of the game
Horten Ho 229
Taranis
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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But they wern't made.
I've got an idea for a new inter stella warp drive..... its on paper uknow
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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I suggest you revise the above post Damien.
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AlexSXI
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Registered: 10th Jan 08
Location: Colchester, Essex
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Anyone in the know,,
I know the traffic gets abit crazy around Farnborough so what time would be best to get there?!
I've never driven before, and can only just remember what it was like from being a passenger with Dad years ago.
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Ojc
Speaking of Germans being miles ahead of the game, say about 70 years ahead of the game
That's a drawing mate.
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Mad Moe
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Registered: 14th Jun 01
Location: Northumberland
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quote:
Originally posted by FAZ
russians made one as well no mig 47?
Thats a Sukhoi Su-47 Berkut
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Ste
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Registered: 5th Mar 03
Location: Taif, Saudi Arabia
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quote:
Originally posted by Ojc
That is also a drawing. albeit a modern day one done on a computer.
I would rather lose by a mile because i built my own car, than win by an inch because someone else built it for me.
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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That looks like it's out of flight sim or something like that.
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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quote:
Originally posted by Ojc
I've seen and heard all sorts of jets this week being between Fairford and Farnborough, I heard something tremendous fly over Thursday ran outside to see a F-15 doing a sharp turn over my house and heading towards Farnborough.
should see what comes over my house on a daily basis, Jaguars, Tornados, Hercules, sometiems sounds like the C130's are going to take the roof off the house 
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