taylorboosh
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Registered: 3rd Apr 07
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BTW
Ian it seems you are singleing out hammers post that yes is an insult, but an insult in a friendly banter way. It is in no way the same as racism meant to deliberatly upset people.
Im finding it hard to tell if your really offended or just using the post as an example. If its the earlier, i suggest you have a can of man the fuck up and practice what you are preaching.
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taylorboosh
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Registered: 3rd Apr 07
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin
 at the Hitler comparison. Really?
I'm not suggesting that ignoring it is the right action but I don't think walking off in protest is. Marc's idea is much better, ban a whole club from having fans in the stadium for their next game if there's any racism, if they do it again, ban them for more games, maybe 3... Do the same as they would to a player.
Do you watch football? As a season ticket holder who is not racist should i be punished for some wanker making monkey noises?
if i miss 3 games worth £90 or so, will i be reimbursed? Is the club expected to foot this bill? I seriously doubt you realise the cash involved in a match day.
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Russ
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Registered: 14th Mar 04
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Season ticket holder gets better
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taylorboosh
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Registered: 3rd Apr 07
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Whats funny about that? The fact i watch your beloved fletcher week in week out?
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taylorboosh
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is it racist to assume all tottenham fans are jewish? They do sing yid army
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Russ
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You're full of shit
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Steve
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Russicst
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Robin
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Registered: 7th Jan 04
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quote:
Originally posted by taylorboosh
quote:
Originally posted by Robin
at the Hitler comparison. Really?
I'm not suggesting that ignoring it is the right action but I don't think walking off in protest is. Marc's idea is much better, ban a whole club from having fans in the stadium for their next game if there's any racism, if they do it again, ban them for more games, maybe 3... Do the same as they would to a player.
Do you watch football? As a season ticket holder who is not racist should i be punished for some wanker making monkey noises?
if i miss 3 games worth £90 or so, will i be reimbursed? Is the club expected to foot this bill? I seriously doubt you realise the cash involved in a match day.
No I don't.
Not sure that's relevant though really, I can still have an opinion.
If EVERYONE is punished for the actions of very few, those few are more likely to be kept in line by the many innocent people, much easier to ban everyone than to isolate 200 people from 60,000 and much more of a statement.
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Robin
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I don't understand your point about money either 
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Because if you've paid to see a game which is cancelled you'd be pissed off.
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taylorboosh
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Registered: 3rd Apr 07
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quote:
Originally posted by Russ
You're full of shit
If you have a problem send it via u2u instead of walking around with your russ is a god attitude when in reality your a condescending prick who lurks on a corsa forum.
If you want proof you can see me every single home match on motd behind the north stand goal, below the away fans. Row 3 just to the left of the fat bloke in his grey tracksuit.
[Edited on 05-01-2013 by taylorboosh]
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by taylorboosh
Ian it seems you are singleing out hammers post that yes is an insult, but an insult in a friendly banter way. It is in no way the same as racism meant to deliberatly upset people.
There's nothing friendly about being told you've left your professional job and gone off the rails and are now conforming to the scouse stereotype. That's a slur right there, designed to undermine my opinion by comparing it to something portrayed as negative.
The same negative thing which is based on my background, I'm going to say my race to keep it simple. So yes, in a thread about racism in which the people on the high horses about how terrible racism is, I'd expect better from them than to be racist. I'd also expect after a racist attack that the other people would see it and say 'hang on, we're trying to stamp out racism, why has Hammer just made a demographic slur and attempted to denigrate Ian for his scouse background, about which Hammer obviously holds a prejudice and negative opinion'.
So no one did that. In fact worse, they told me it was me taking it the wrong way. If you did that for other forms of prejudice you'd be hung up. Tell the footballer he's taking it the wrong way and its banter, see where that gets you.
Like I said in my first post, there are fringe cases which people at large don't support. Lucky for me I actually got one on the following page but then because I don't tow the PC line and have an opinion of my own we get some shit about how Hitler was right and we should keep throwing bananas, neither of which anyone suggested.
I'm also not about to insult Hammer on the basis of his background because I'm not after a quick and easy, dare I say racist insult to use.
Perhaps he is.
Perhaps prejudice has many forms.
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taylorboosh
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I do agree, but i dont think its the scouse thing that offends you, i think its more the more personal aspect of saying you went off the rails..
Which then tracks back to your argument that calling rooney shrek (personal insult) is more offensive than calling someone black (generic).
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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I don't mind at all being recognised as scouse when its not used not used as a slur.
Ideally we'd need Hammer to come on and say exactly what he thinks the scouse stereotype is because anything I post about his opinion will be guesswork, but my current guess was that it's not that they're all intelligent, hard-working tax-payers.
[Edited on 05-01-2013 by Ian]
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Robin
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Because if you've paid to see a game which is cancelled you'd be pissed off.
Which would surely encourage you to stop other people saying or doing things so it didn't happen again?
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Depending what control you had on those other people - probably very little.
I'd liken that to putting a class on detention because of one kid who can't behave. I always considered that poor discipline because if anything it empowers the people who are the reason for it.
I was just replying to the point about money. He said it would cost him £90 to have three games cancelled. That's a valid point, no fan is going to want to forfeit their entrance fee in that way on a semi-regular basis.
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taylorboosh
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Imagine 40000 fans missing 3 games they have paid for. Say £30 a ticket so £90 each. That is £3,600,000 without the catering sales and beer sales for not only the club but for the surrounding facilities.
A ban on fans watching the games really is a stupid motion. We just need to find the individuals doing it and ban them.
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Ian
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I can half see that short term pain which leads to a change in attitudes would actually help.
Like if that £3.6m changed football chants for the better, it would be well spent.
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taylorboosh
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That draws me to your argument now.
If you do that as action against racist chanting.
For instance imagine you agree racism stems to local background ie. Scouse, mackem, gerordie... Rival chants banned too?
What about the host of sick chants that arent racially motivated?
Take action against one then the other needs addressed too imo. Once that has done you have lost much of the essence in live football. No atmosphere = shit game
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by taylorboosh
What about the host of sick chants that arent racially motivated?
That's my point too - not enough public interest.
The Boateng incident is world news and disproportionately reported based on the size of the game.
Could have a larger game, more specific, targeted sick chants, no way those would be reported as widely.
And at that point most fans would end up wondering what they'd wished for when you had to sit there behaving. Not even sure the fans want to get to that point.
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Ian
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In fact I've just realised the whole prejudice link and why Hammer is no stranger to it, they do it for fun at Old Firm games.
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Robin
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£3.6m in lost revenue from one game would surely encourage the owners of the club to be more vigilant, maybe even by monitoring the stands, to remove the racism.
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taylorboosh
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That would be 3 games. Theres stewards all over. 40000 people are a lot to moniter.
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taylorboosh
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Although £30 is very cheap most clubs cost a lot more.
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Tommy L
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Banning fans may be drastic but something like that needs to happen to deter fans of doing it. Uefa slapping a £65k fine on the Serbian fa for the u21 incident was embarrassing. How is that going to affect the fans behaviour?
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