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Originally posted by VXR
America and Intelligence are 2 words that should not be in the same sentance.

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Originally posted by Cosmo
If its a matter of national security then I dont care by what means they get the information from the terrorists tbh.

They'd have no care about what they are going to do to the innocent people when they commit their terrorism, so neither should we when trying to stop it.

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Originally posted by Colin
They have the right to protect their land and the people who voted for them. There MUST be some form of control or it will turn into a free for all. People decide their fate with whatever they get caught up in. If you don't want to land in guantanamo then dont fuck about at terror training camps and make bombs. Like I said these people they are bringing in wont be goat herders!!

Yes sometimes people are wrongly accused but thats part of life, & goes back to my need of control point. If you say we have reason to believe, there is evidence to support but we cannot prove entirely what do you do for the better? Let them go....to possibly kill again?

The worlds a tough mean place, theres got to be some control!!

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Originally posted by Dr Pepper
Think some of you need to make up your minds

1- Do you want to prevent more terrorism
2- Or do you want to simply capture existing terrorists and beat the crap out of them.


Western countries wont win a war on terror because their actions abroad will just keep creating a new breed of western haters. We are well off in the West at the expense of poor countries. Our governments need enemys to justify a weapons industry worth billions of dollars/pounds - our government and especially the American government rely on terrorists to justify their actions in spending billions on weapons, revoking personal freedom and introducing more and more legislation.

In many ways we in the west have created terrorism against ouselfs- and we need to be at war with something/somebody to keep the economy going.


If you truely want to reduce terrorism then you have to reduce hatred of western countries..... you do this by giving more money, aid, trade links, building contracts to emerging/ poor nations --- rather than raping them for their resources like we have done for hundreds of years

[Edited on 25-08-2009 by Dr Pepper]

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Originally posted by VXR
Yes, im stupid and ignorent and are not aware of what can be done with technology, what with me in IT and all that......

No, they don't have satalites that good. You've watched too many American movies......

Whilst they can zoom in on a particular area, they cannot read envelopes...... It aint a Will Smith movie


If they could, why send in any armed forces into the area???? They would just do it all from space and save the country billions of dollars.

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Originally posted by Dr Pepper
Think some of you need to make up your minds

1- Do you want to prevent more terrorism
2- Or do you want to simply capture existing terrorists and beat the crap out of them.


Western countries wont win a war on terror because their actions abroad will just keep creating a new breed of western haters. We are well off in the West at the expense of poor countries. Our governments need enemys to justify a weapons industry worth billions of dollars/pounds - our government and especially the American government rely on terrorists to justify their actions in spending billions on weapons, revoking personal freedom and introducing more and more legislation.

In many ways we in the west have created terrorism against ouselfs- and we need to be at war with something/somebody to keep the economy going.


If you truely want to reduce terrorism then you have to reduce hatred of western countries..... you do this by giving more money, aid, trade links, building contracts to emerging/ poor nations --- rather than raping them for their resources like we have done for hundreds of years

[Edited on 25-08-2009 by Dr Pepper]

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Originally posted by VXR
Yes, im stupid and ignorent and are not aware of what can be done with technology, what with me in IT and all that......

No, they don't have satalites that good. You've watched too many American movies......

Whilst they can zoom in on a particular area, they cannot read envelopes...... It aint a Will Smith movie


If they could, why send in any armed forces into the area???? They would just do it all from space and save the country billions of dollars.

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Originally posted by DaveyLC
Again you miss the point, if there was evidence of the above activities then they wouldnt be in Guantanamo, they would be charged and imprisoned..

The whole point of Guantanamo is to avoid the official US judicial system for those cases where they have no evidence or the evidence is next to useless and they are going on a whim or hearsay.

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Originally posted by DaveyLC

The arm forces are there to control the gorrilla milita (i.e. not government controlled), that cant be done via satelite can it.. And yes there are satelites, drone aircraft and AWAKS that can be used for fine level air to ground monitoring.

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Originally posted by VXR

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Originally posted by DaveyLC
Again you miss the point, if there was evidence of the above activities then they wouldnt be in Guantanamo, they would be charged and imprisoned..

The whole point of Guantanamo is to avoid the official US judicial system for those cases where they have no evidence or the evidence is next to useless and they are going on a whim or hearsay.

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If that whim and hearsay intrudes the rights of an individual, but possibly saves the lives of tens, hundreds, or even thousands of people, then yes they should be detained until more information can be found.


As said, they don't pull them into the Bay for looking at someone dodgy as they went into the local 7-eleven to get some fags........

There is justification, dodgey actions, un-neccesary meetings with known criminals etc...

I wonder if you would feel so passionate for the individual if that persn was then set free and bombed hundreds of people including some members of your family. I wonder if you would have the same opinoin then?????

I very VERY much doubt it.

Oh, RE you comments about proof, and in-prisonment... Yeah, tell that to OJ simpson eh?????

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Originally posted by willay
Prove it Daimo, prove that there istn taht technology about

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Originally posted by Colin

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Originally posted by Dr Pepper
Think some of you need to make up your minds

1- Do you want to prevent more terrorism
2- Or do you want to simply capture existing terrorists and beat the crap out of them.


Western countries wont win a war on terror because their actions abroad will just keep creating a new breed of western haters. We are well off in the West at the expense of poor countries. Our governments need enemys to justify a weapons industry worth billions of dollars/pounds - our government and especially the American government rely on terrorists to justify their actions in spending billions on weapons, revoking personal freedom and introducing more and more legislation.

In many ways we in the west have created terrorism against ouselfs- and we need to be at war with something/somebody to keep the economy going.


If you truely want to reduce terrorism then you have to reduce hatred of western countries..... you do this by giving more money, aid, trade links, building contracts to emerging/ poor nations --- rather than raping them for their resources like we have done for hundreds of years

[Edited on 25-08-2009 by Dr Pepper]

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They say a war is good for business and its wholly true in the sense. Fact is that if The US & UK didn't do so then you wouldn't be able to enjoy the standard of life you do now for much longer.

Correct me if im wrong but you are a muslim? British born but not british background? I'll continue if you confirm...

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Originally posted by VXR
Davey, your example is terrible. You would not go to the Bay for something like that. The seller has more chance of going to the bay, not the individual purchaser.

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Originally posted by Dr Pepper

Im white ,born in Oxford to lower middle class white parants- went to a nice school, went to uni and now work in independent retail-- i despise all organised religion- but am all in favour of faith.

To answer your question ----- yes I would be happy to have a lower standard of life in this country to allow poorer countries to have a slice of the pie. Whatdo you consider a good standard of life..... buying a macdonalds, going to a cinema, going shopping for meaningless electrical tat? We could easily illiminate much of the poverty in the world without too much of an adverse effct on our own standard of life.

All you need is the will to do it---- the shame is our politicians and many of our citizens are just to greedy and ignorant to allow any real positive change to happen.

So I guess we will have to live with the mess we have created and keep snatching random muslims off the battlefield in hope that we can knock some infomation out of them.

We made our big mistake a couple of hundred years back when we thought it was ok to rob africa of a generation of its young people to work for us as slaves to make sure western countries progessed faster than african/eastern countries--- we still havnt got that mindset out of our heads that its ok to rape the world for our own good

[Edited on 25-08-2009 by Dr Pepper]

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Originally posted by Colin
Ok fair enough I gathered you might be muslim from your stance on western ways.

The problem is, without exploiting other countries this tiny island would be on its knee's, not a matter of lowering the standard of living but in time verging on a 3rd world country.

Im not talking giving up McDonalds and electrical goods, im talking about the things which we need in order to keep this country running to avoid monumental economical collapse. Oil mainly. Its all about the oil, who needs it, who has it and who doesn't. Iraq war was all about the oil. Theres no way this country or the US would go without & we cannot produce enough from our own reserves.

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