chip
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Registered: 28th Sep 08
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quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
Whats you opinion on the latest outcomings of the mig thread chip? Altering spring poundage by shimming lifters? Sounds like nuts to me...
I suspect Gary has slightly confused the details when he has repeated them, its possible to alter spring poundages by shimming their installed length differently, but thats not the same shims as on the solid lifters.
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
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I'm still curious as to exactly what the issue is.
The basis for your decision is those three spreadsheets?
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Rick Draper
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Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: Cheshire
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You dont alter the poundage on a spring by shimming it though. You are only ever messing with the preload not the actual spring rate itself. Spring rate will always remain static, preload is a adjustable rate. The only way you can alter spring rate is by changing the spring itself.
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Rick Draper
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Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: Cheshire
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quote:
Originally posted by chip
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
Whats you opinion on the latest outcomings of the mig thread chip? Altering spring poundage by shimming lifters? Sounds like nuts to me...
I suspect Gary has slightly confused the details when he has repeated them, its possible to alter spring poundages by shimming their installed length differently, but thats not the same shims as on the solid lifters.
As posted above. Spring poundage cannot be altered by shimming a spring. Only the preload is adjusted like that.
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spikedjack
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Registered: 16th Oct 08
Location: wolverhampton/cannock
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quote:
Originally posted by chip
quote:
Originally posted by spikedjack
Personally i dont see why chip or anyone for that matter have involved himself this much.
I was asked to look at the map by the lad who owns the car
quote:
Even the poor lad who's engine had the knackard piston hasnt kicked up as much fuss as this man, or even as much as the people arguing against him. In all honesty, people need to chill the fook out and understand that getting too serious about this lot takes out the fun of what we all love best, cars.
[Edited on 16-10-2009 by spikedjack]
Enjoying cars is more fun if your engine still works, my replies are aimed at helping people understand the risks they face from a poor mapping job.
i too have been dropped in the shit by a well known company bud and as a full time student working full time also i know how hard it can be.
Everyone needs to find out one way or another, reading shit on the internet means nothing t 99% of people. After the stuff i've read about barnes' cosa from JDM i'd happily use them. One bad map with 100's of good ones and all that.
I understand a bad map will have caused the damage but the risk was always there surely running that much power on standard pistons and rods?
If he asked for your advice then ok thats fair enough, but for some reason you have made a lot of enemies through this and people view of you has gone really down hill. Now as i havent met you i cannot comment however i would think its in the manner of your replies and how they are worded not in what you are trying to put accross.
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Muzzy@VauxhallScotland
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Registered: 12th Nov 08
Location: Aberdeen
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As i said before, i don’t know anything about mapping so i could never comment on the map at all, but if it was my car and that had happened only 120 miles after being remapped i would be questioning the person who carried out the changes to see if something they have done has caused the failure but I would obviously look into the other possibilities, but if I was told from a few people who know what they are talking about after they saw the map that it was terrible then I would be pointing fingers. Surely in this case the mapper would have known that what they were doing was incorrect. I mean I assume from what has been said that this is far from just a mistake?
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chip
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Registered: 28th Sep 08
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quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
quote:
Originally posted by chip
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
Whats you opinion on the latest outcomings of the mig thread chip? Altering spring poundage by shimming lifters? Sounds like nuts to me...
I suspect Gary has slightly confused the details when he has repeated them, its possible to alter spring poundages by shimming their installed length differently, but thats not the same shims as on the solid lifters.
As posted above. Spring poundage cannot be altered by shimming a spring. Only the preload is adjusted like that.
Its the preload poundage im referring to Rick, not the spring rate, which as you say is a physical property of the spring itself.
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chip
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Registered: 28th Sep 08
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quote:
Originally posted by spikedjack
i too have been dropped in the shit by a well known company bud and as a full time student working full time also i know how hard it can be.
Everyone needs to find out one way or another, reading shit on the internet means nothing t 99% of people. After the stuff i've read about barnes' cosa from JDM i'd happily use them. One bad map with 100's of good ones and all that.
I am genuinely surprised at how bad the map is, Ive never seen a worse map personally, I just dont understand how anyone who knows the first thing about mapping a car could believe that they had done a good job on that map.
I dont know if thats cause whoever mapped it was incompetant, or simply didnt care, I also dont know for certain who mapped it, I can only go by what the owner told me.
quote:
I understand a bad map will have caused the damage but the risk was always there surely running that much power on standard pistons and rods?
He was on steel rods I believe.
quote:
If he asked for your advice then ok thats fair enough, but for some reason you have made a lot of enemies through this and people view of you has gone really down hill. Now as i havent met you i cannot comment however i would think its in the manner of your replies and how they are worded not in what you are trying to put accross.
If people's opinions have gone downhill purely because I have given the benefit of my experience and knowledge in a post on the internet, then I suspect that they arent people's whos opinion I would care much about TBH mate, you would have to a bit of a tosser to start judging someone just for giving their honest opinion on a technical discussion on the internet IMHO
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Rick Draper
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Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: Cheshire
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If i am honest reading mig on my iphone i suspect the new engine is been built in a shed with little or no knowledge and the owner has just been caught out royally by SBS. Then again thats only how it would seem to me sat here looking in at the vauxhall world...
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chip
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Registered: 28th Sep 08
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He says the guy building it has 30 years experience in F1 and BTCC, I know nothing about that though, he could be another Neil Roper character who genuinely has that sort of experience in the context of engine building or he could be someone who had merely been a low level mechanic all those years, you would need to ask Gary.
The number of people I personally hold in high regard for building engines is pretty slim, there are a lot of people out there charging people money for what I consider to be a substand job, much like mapping in fact!
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Rick Draper
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I know, my first engine was built by someone who claimed to build F3 engines. When i gapped the ring it was like been the father of 3 babies and none of them were white....
Still it will be interesting to see what it does on norris dyno, even though its not tvg, and nup approved fpmsl
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spikedjack
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Registered: 16th Oct 08
Location: wolverhampton/cannock
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quote:
Originally posted by chip
quote:
Originally posted by spikedjack
i too have been dropped in the shit by a well known company bud and as a full time student working full time also i know how hard it can be.
Everyone needs to find out one way or another, reading shit on the internet means nothing t 99% of people. After the stuff i've read about barnes' cosa from JDM i'd happily use them. One bad map with 100's of good ones and all that.
I am genuinely surprised at how bad the map is, Ive never seen a worse map personally, I just dont understand how anyone who knows the first thing about mapping a car could believe that they had done a good job on that map.
I dont know if thats cause whoever mapped it was incompetant, or simply didnt care, I also dont know for certain who mapped it, I can only go by what the owner told me.
quote:
I understand a bad map will have caused the damage but the risk was always there surely running that much power on standard pistons and rods?
He was on steel rods I believe.
quote:
If he asked for your advice then ok thats fair enough, but for some reason you have made a lot of enemies through this and people view of you has gone really down hill. Now as i havent met you i cannot comment however i would think its in the manner of your replies and how they are worded not in what you are trying to put accross.
If people's opinions have gone downhill purely because I have given the benefit of my experience and knowledge in a post on the internet, then I suspect that they arent people's whos opinion I would care much about TBH mate, you would have to a bit of a tosser to start judging someone just for giving their honest opinion on a technical discussion on the internet IMHO
if you dont care then thats upto you, i was just mentioning it.
Steel rods. Ok then surely he was to know that his engine is only as strong as the weakest link, IE in this intance, his pistons at 350+ bhp.
I will have to take your word on the mapping as i will openly admit to not knowing the first thing about it .
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chip
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Registered: 28th Sep 08
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I dont expect it will make the power that it claimed to for the same boost at JDM.
I know several people who have power figures from JDM that would never see the same elsewhere.
Matt Conner's cossie for example, made 382bhp and 434lbft of torque on a T34 on a 48 housing on a fairly conservative map, it wouldnt see anything like those numbers on something as accurate as the Norris dyno.
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chip
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Registered: 28th Sep 08
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quote:
Originally posted by spikedjack
quote:
Originally posted by chip
quote:
Originally posted by spikedjack
i too have been dropped in the shit by a well known company bud and as a full time student working full time also i know how hard it can be.
Everyone needs to find out one way or another, reading shit on the internet means nothing t 99% of people. After the stuff i've read about barnes' cosa from JDM i'd happily use them. One bad map with 100's of good ones and all that.
I am genuinely surprised at how bad the map is, Ive never seen a worse map personally, I just dont understand how anyone who knows the first thing about mapping a car could believe that they had done a good job on that map.
I dont know if thats cause whoever mapped it was incompetant, or simply didnt care, I also dont know for certain who mapped it, I can only go by what the owner told me.
quote:
I understand a bad map will have caused the damage but the risk was always there surely running that much power on standard pistons and rods?
He was on steel rods I believe.
quote:
If he asked for your advice then ok thats fair enough, but for some reason you have made a lot of enemies through this and people view of you has gone really down hill. Now as i havent met you i cannot comment however i would think its in the manner of your replies and how they are worded not in what you are trying to put accross.
If people's opinions have gone downhill purely because I have given the benefit of my experience and knowledge in a post on the internet, then I suspect that they arent people's whos opinion I would care much about TBH mate, you would have to a bit of a tosser to start judging someone just for giving their honest opinion on a technical discussion on the internet IMHO
if you dont care then thats upto you, i was just mentioning it.
Steel rods. Ok then surely he was to know that his engine is only as strong as the weakest link, IE in this intance, his pistons at 350+ bhp.
I will have to take your word on the mapping as i will openly admit to not knowing the first thing about it .
Plenty of standard mahle pistons doing more than 350bhp, they are very good pistons.
Qrews calibra was doing 11.3s and a claimed 568bhp on a set for example, and there are a few UK cars in the 400bhp ballpark on them too.
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spikedjack
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Registered: 16th Oct 08
Location: wolverhampton/cannock
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Am i correct in thinking that not all of them are forged as standard its all down to which particular mahle pistons are in your engine you own?
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chip
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Registered: 28th Sep 08
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quote:
Originally posted by spikedjack
Am i correct in thinking that not all of them are forged as standard its all down to which particular mahle pistons are in your engine you own?
All the standard LET mahle ones are pressure cast (what people call forged), its the XE that some of them were and some of them were just normal cast pistons.
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spikedjack
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Registered: 16th Oct 08
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thats what i've confused then, thanks for that.
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red_top_corsa
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Registered: 29th Oct 08
Location: ramsgate kent
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too all who dont know chip you cant realy judge him just for this hes just saying how infair it is for some to spend all that money on a engine for it to det after 120 miles bairly run in. i met chip at pvs09 when he was working on his nova and to me seems like a nice bloke and down to earth he didnt seem stuck up like other ppl not saying names but thats just what i think!!!
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_Allan_
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Registered: 24th Mar 04
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I've just logged into mig by accident haven't I 
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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quote:
Originally posted by chip
I dont expect it will make the power that it claimed to for the same boost at JDM.
I know several people who have power figures from JDM that would never see the same elsewhere.
Matt Conner's cossie for example, made 382bhp and 434lbft of torque on a T34 on a 48 housing on a fairly conservative map, it wouldnt see anything like those numbers on something as accurate as the Norris dyno.
and yet i know loads that make higher at other places. bizarre really.
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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Give me your engine and we'll put it on the engine test bed in the lab next door to mine 
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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no point really. chip has said what power it is so i will just go along with that.
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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quote:
Originally posted by red_top_corsa and to me seems like a nice bloke and down to earth he didnt seem stuck up like other ppl not saying names but thats just what i think!!!
My names not Chip??
  
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taylorboosh
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Registered: 3rd Apr 07
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fucking lol nic you are cool 
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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im cooler than the inlet temps of a certain melted engine..............
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