DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by John
50kg is a light passenger, that's not that much.
50kg isnt alot? Thats like the XE having no interior or glass 
|
Nic Barnes
Member
Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
User status: Offline
|
i was always under the impression that the higher up the rpm the peak torque was made at the quicker the car accelerated.
|
DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Nic Barnes
i was always under the impression that the higher up the rpm the peak torque was made at the quicker the car accelerated.
If that was the case 1/4 mile competitions wouldnt be dominated by V8's  They would all be racing Honda's
[Edited on 08-01-2009 by DaveyLC]
|
John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
|
Diesels have loads of low down torque but are slow to 60?
50kg is 7 stone, unless you have a 1 litre a child in the car surely won't affect acceleration that much.
[Edited on 08-01-2009 by John]
|
richc
Member
Registered: 24th Mar 07
Location: Ilkeston
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by John
Diesels have loads of low down torque but are slow to 60?
50kg is 7 stone, unless you have a 1 litre a child in the car surely won't affect acceleration that much.
[Edited on 08-01-2009 by John]
Gearing?
|
DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by John
Diesels have loads of low down torque but are slow to 60?
50kg is 7 stone, unless you have a 1 litre a child in the car surely won't affect acceleration that much.
[Edited on 08-01-2009 by John]
Depends what car you are talking about, theres are pleanty of fast reving common rail turbo's which are bloody quick..
The problem the diesels have is they are inherently slow reving because here is zero ignition control (the problem with have no spark plugs )..
|
DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by John
Diesels have loads of low down torque but are slow to 60?
50kg is 7 stone, unless you have a 1 litre a child in the car surely won't affect acceleration that much.
[Edited on 08-01-2009 by John]
Mass and grip (friction) have the biggest effect on how fast a certain amount of torque will propel you, once wind resitance becomes an issue drag v's BHP has the biggest effect.
|
Nic Barnes
Member
Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
User status: Offline
|
thing is, again with acceleration, once you have your peak torque which is lower, it wont pull as hard as the xe's which is higher. think they make about 140+lb/ft at just under 5000rpm
therefore your rpm is all bollocksed up as you dont have the power after that point either.
i fail to believe for once minute an engine which has about 6bhp more than the 1600 16v and maybe 15lb/ft can keep up with a 20xe.
unless the xe was a dog.
|
DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Nic Barnes
thing is, again with acceleration, once you have your peak torque which is lower, it wont pull as hard as the xe's which is higher. think they make about 140+lb/ft at just under 5000rpm
I think you miss understand.. If peak torque is at 5000rpm you will only be in the peak torque band for a brief period because you'll be changing gear.. as you shift revs drop again and your way bellow the peak..
The fastest accelerating cars tend to have a low torque band and a high power band.
Back to the V8's again 
|
Eck
Premium Member
Registered: 17th Apr 06
Location: Lundin Links, Fife
User status: Offline
|
Gotta agree with the masses here. It may have more torque and a slight increase in power over a 1600, but nowhere near enough to keep up with an XE imo.
|
DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eck
Gotta agree with the masses here. It may have more torque and a slight increase in power over a 1600, but nowhere near enough to keep up with an XE imo.
Will you all be happy if I make a video?
|
Nic Barnes
Member
Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
User status: Offline
|
but your engine doesnt have a high power band. infact it has considerably less torque and power to what you are comparing it to.
|
Eck
Premium Member
Registered: 17th Apr 06
Location: Lundin Links, Fife
User status: Offline
|
If you make a video of an independent driver driving both your car with in car vid of speedo, then same driver driving an XE yes.
|
DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
I've got a couple of local mates with red topped corsa and my mate with the TypeR.. On a nice dry day I'll see if we can get together (on a private road ofcourse) and put to gether a little video.
|
DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eck
If you make a video of an independent driver driving both your car with in car vid of speedo, then same driver driving an XE yes.
Hell you can come and drive it if you like mate.
|
Eck
Premium Member
Registered: 17th Apr 06
Location: Lundin Links, Fife
User status: Offline
|
But that is inconclusive evidence as I'm guessing it's down to the driver if you're keeping up with it. You have less torque, and much less power!
|
Nic Barnes
Member
Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
I've got a couple of local mates with red topped corsa and my mate with the TypeR.. On a nice dry day I'll see if we can get together (on a private road ofcourse) and put to gether a little video.
tbh fail, as the xe as i stated above could be a dog. thats no comparrison.
ok then, do another example. engine waa fitted to a vectra correct? as was the x20xe, which has less torque and bhp than the c20xe also.
which vectra was quicker? the one with more bhp and torque? ie the x20xe? same weight of cars.
|
Eck
Premium Member
Registered: 17th Apr 06
Location: Lundin Links, Fife
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
quote:
Originally posted by Eck
If you make a video of an independent driver driving both your car with in car vid of speedo, then same driver driving an XE yes.
Hell you can come and drive it if you like mate.
I'm not trying to sound like a cunt mate but it just seems highly unlikely!
|
DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Nic Barnes
quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
I've got a couple of local mates with red topped corsa and my mate with the TypeR.. On a nice dry day I'll see if we can get together (on a private road ofcourse) and put to gether a little video.
tbh fail, as the xe as i stated above could be a dog. thats no comparrison.
ok then, do another example. engine waa fitted to a vectra correct? as was the x20xe, which has less torque and bhp than the c20xe also.
which vectra was quicker? the one with more bhp and torque? ie the x20xe? same weight of cars.
Again gearing and weight does play a part here, the nature of the big block engine and the longer ratio box are better suited to the Vectra so its not an entirely fair comparisson.
There is less than a second difference between the X20XEV Vectra SRi140 and the X18XE1 SXi (F17 gearbox)..
|
Nic Barnes
Member
Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
User status: Offline
|
yes, which is a heavier engine in the first place, and still faster. i know about gearing and weight etc etc etc.
so thats what im saying. its not about listening to where the numbers are, its down to utter common sense that its just not a plausable argument or statement to make.
|
DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
but the difference is neglegable.. The engine and box are better suited to the smaller corsa.. Which is what im trying to get accross in the corsa its a different animal.
|
Mobby
Member
Registered: 31st Dec 07
Location: Leicestershire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
but the difference is neglegable.. The engine and box are better suited to the smaller corsa.. Which is what im trying to get accross in the corsa its a different animal.
|
Ste L
Member
Registered: 3rd Jul 06
Location: Manchester Drives: 106 16v Rallye
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eck
But that is inconclusive evidence as I'm guessing it's down to the driver if you're keeping up with it. You have less torque, and much less power!
+1
your giving a good arguement for it, but untill i see solid proof, i just cant see it..
still, if the xe gives up, i may try one out in it's place
|
Nic Barnes
Member
Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
but the difference is neglegable.. The engine and box are better suited to the smaller corsa.. Which is what im trying to get accross in the corsa its a different animal.
differences are a second in acceleration with the heavier engine and gearbox in the same car as the lighter one. those are manufacturing numbers. you say its not about the numbers but if you then put the x20xev into a corsa same as yours, again it would be quicker would it not?
or have i completly missed the point that the engine with less torque made at less rpm and less bhp made at less rpm is actually far faster?
|
barter
Member
Registered: 27th Oct 07
Location: essex
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
I've got a couple of local mates with red topped corsa and my mate with the TypeR.. On a nice dry day I'll see if we can get together (on a private road ofcourse) and put to gether a little video.
id be more than happy to give you a run at pod?
and if a type r is near your mates xe's there summit wrong with them.type r's are well over rated.
[Edited on 08-01-2009 by barter]
|
