mwg
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Registered: 19th Feb 04
Location: South Lakes
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You're a criminal
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
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6 pages 
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by alan-g-w
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Have we discussed Salem's previous convictions yet?
No, since it's nothing to do with whether he deserved to be rattled around the head with a cicket bat in this instance.
Now I know you're winding us up.
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by Sam
I assume defending yourselves during the incident is considered self defense (i.e. the person(s) hold a knife/gun to you at the time) rather than chasing the burglars after they committed the crime?
That's exactly how it looks at it. The most noteworthy recent case is the attempted robbery of Tony Singh, who killed his attacker, Liam Kilroe with is own knife. Singh was arrested but not charged.
quote:
"The Director of Public Prosecutions is determined to ensure that those who use reasonable force in defending themselves will enjoy the full protection of the law - they will not be prosecuted."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7266555.stm
I think the law is a bit naive in that regard. It prohibits any degree of vindication and draws the line at reasonable force. Which, as I see it, means that they come back even more pissed off. My mum and dad had an attempted break-in and they scared them off. When they were caught and went to court, my mum and dad had car and house windows smashed and the front door set on fire. If my dad had have shot them on the front lawn instead of merely shouting at them, he wouldn't have needed to go through to anguish of being awoken in the middle of the night wondering why his stairs were about to catch light, spoiling somewhat his chance of escape.
I lived at home through this and I know first hand that it's not a nice thing to be not only the potential victim of crime but also the target of a retribution attack when our only misdemeanour was proving a witness statement which put the criminals in the area at that time. Hence why I don't generally have a goody-goody view of being fair and equitable to those people who, as I see it, choose to surrender their human rights as soon as they impinge upon the human rights of those people whom they affect.
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Neo
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Registered: 20th Feb 07
Location: Essex
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I think what Sam has said hits the nail on the head.
Using force when in a situation, I.E an intruder comes at you and through force are able to stop them can be classed as Self Defence
Whereas, chasing someone down and attacking them is a completely different scenario.
Where I feel there is a hazy middle ground is for example - I heard someone in the apartment, took my training sword and found them in the kitchen. If I was to place the first blow and for it to be taken to court and consequently proven as unproked, would the courts find myself guilty of GBH/ABH or the intruder guilty for Breaking and Entering/Intent 
99.9% of people would feel i was correct, however where would it stand in current UK law.
Ian, that's beyond messed up, and one of the many reasons why i truly feel our country and laws let us down.
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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I'd just like to say that my views are purely selfish. There's no point fucking your own life up in order to get revenge on some cunt. There's no point in turning a weapon on someone because it's highly likely it will get turned back on you and there's no point in starting a fight with someone who is potentially armed with something a bit more deadly than his fists.
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
quote:
Originally posted by alan-g-w
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Have we discussed Salem's previous convictions yet?
No, since it's nothing to do with whether he deserved to be rattled around the head with a cicket bat in this instance. Who knows, maybe Karma had it in for him - but I'm pretty sure Munir Hussain and the others didn't know any of his previous.
Now I know you're winding us up.
Bit in bold is the bit you conveniently decided to leave out of that quote.
I'm not trying to wind anyone up - I'm trying my hardest to be as diplomatic as possible. Fair enough, discussing the guy's previous convictions might tell us what kind of person he was but it's not as if Hussein and the others knew or cared at the time. The would have been very much in the here and now if you know what I'm saying.
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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It has everything to do with whether he needed hitting with a bat. He's a criminal. Hit him with a bat already.
Whether you know the case or not, criminals should be hit with bats. I can't be any more clear.
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MattyG206
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Registered: 24th Jul 08
Location: HuddersField
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All this talk about he didn’t deserve it ect is exactly why this country has gone to shit imo it’s a shame he didn’t kill him because now we are going to have to pay to keep the guy alive.
If we had stricter punishment for so called petty crimes im sure the crime rate would come down a lot and people would not have to take the law into there own hands. Personally I think if you brake into someone’s house what ever happens is your own fault and if you don’t like it don’t do it. If it was up to me id have all thieves shot they contribute nothing so why keep them alive.
he broke into some ones house and tied his family up and knife-point now he has brain damage and wont do it again i dont see the problem? seem like the punishment worked
[Edited on 16-12-2009 by MattyG206]
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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Kill everyone IMO
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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Sit under your kitchen table armed with a bat, frightened and batter the milkman if he comes onto your property IMO
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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I saw your mum that day, put a snooker cue up her bum that day, saw your dad that time lucky he didn't get stabbed that time, left hook upper cut jab that time
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
It has everything to do with whether he needed hitting with a bat. He's a criminal. Hit him with a bat already.
Whether you know the case or not, criminals should be hit with bats. I can't be any more clear.
Right, glad I know what I'm dealing with now anyway.
Violent crime such as assault, murder and rape, yes 'hit them with bats'. Crimes where you physically assault someone should be punished with physical abuse up to the same level as they committed, after all an eye for an eye.
But I'm going to have to play the old 'speeding is a crime' card. I speed just like everyone else does, be it 5mph over the limit or 50mph over the limit. If what you're saying came into effect me and everyone else including yourself committing stupid, daft 'crimes' like speeding would all be hit with bats because it would in effect make us criminals, making it irrelevant 'whether you know the case or not' as you put it. You'd be put up in front of a judge, he'd ask the bailiff if you were a ciminal or not, baliff would reply yes and you'd promptly be whacked about.
I know I'm taking what you're saying a bit too literally and I respect that those are your views. But where is the line when you're talking about crime in general as a black or white matter?
If someone knew they were getting the same punishment whether they mugged someone in the street or robbed a bank everyone would be out robbing banks. It's the fact you get tougher sentences for worse crimes that puts the majority of people off from doing things like robbery.
[Edited on 16-12-2009 by alan-g-w]
[Edited on 16-12-2009 by alan-g-w]
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mwg
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Registered: 19th Feb 04
Location: South Lakes
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Speeding isn't a crime.
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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If you hit people with bats when caught for speeding they wouldn't do it again.
The punishment is supposed to be a deterrent first of all and when it's failed as that it's supposed to rehabilitate, rehabilitation is the sole aim of our justice system as it was created.
Currently, the only people it deters are decent humans, the people commiting the crimes aren't put off and they all go out and do it again so clearly don't deserve to be let out in society.
If hitting everyone with a bat solved the problem I'm all for it.
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Speeding isn't a crime, its a civil offence.
And if I'm going to be hit with a bat for doing 5mph over the speed limit, perhaps speed limits are a silly idea.
In fact, you're right. Speed limits are silly. I would far rather be hit with a bat for genuinely bad driving and not hit with a bat if I speed but its not dangerous.
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
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My mistake then by using speeding as an example. But think about the old story about the man stealing a loaf of bread to feed his starving family - yes, he's committed a crime but not to the extent that he deserves physical punishment. That is the sole reason why the punishment needs to suit the crime, it's not as easy as giving everyone the same treatment.
I agree that a lot of, if not all, speed limits are silly. But it's something we need to live with, the same way you need to live with it should you commit a more serious offence - for example chasing someone down the street with a cricket bat and hitting them till they get perm. brain damage.
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
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quote:
Originally posted by John
If you hit people with bats when caught for speeding they wouldn't do it again.
The punishment is supposed to be a deterrent first of all and when it's failed as that it's supposed to rehabilitate, rehabilitation is the sole aim of our justice system as it was created.
Currently, the only people it deters are decent humans, the people commiting the crimes aren't put off and they all go out and do it again so clearly don't deserve to be let out in society.
If hitting everyone with a bat solved the problem I'm all for it.
Are you seriously saying that if you were caught speeding you'd happliy take a beating with a bat as punishment?
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by alan-g-w
the old story about the man stealing a loaf of bread to feed his starving family
Story?
True story? Or poppycock? You tell me how many people steal bread because they're starving? In fact you tell me how many people steal bread? They steal coats and households at knifepoint and money for drugs.
Does bread theft not make the news or is that "story" total pap. Stealing to provide is a Dickensian legacy. I bet anyone who is hungry thinking about stealing to provide in 2009 is too lazy to go out and to it because the X Factor is on their big telly.
Show me the genuinely poor people with no choice but to steal. They're entitled and probably drawing benefits, and if that isn't enough then they should consider employment in the household, or having less kids.
Nobody in the UK needs to steal.
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Richie
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Registered: 3rd Dec 02
Location: Newport, Wales
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Sounds to me like alan is a thieving scumbag that's trying to convince us all not to twat him 
[Edited on 16-12-2009 by Richie]
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
quote:
Originally posted by alan-g-w
the old story about the man stealing a loaf of bread to feed his starving family
Story?
True story? Or poppycock? You tell me how many people steal bread because they're starving? In fact you tell me how many people steal bread? They steal coats and households at knifepoint and money for drugs.
Does bread theft not make the news or is that "story" total pap. Stealing to provide is a Dickensian legacy. I bet anyone who is hungry thinking about stealing to provide in 2009 is too lazy to go out and to it because the X Factor is on their big telly.
Show me the genuinely poor people with no choice but to steal. They're entitled and probably drawing benefits, and if that isn't enough then they should consider employment in the household, or having less kids.
Nobody in the UK needs to steal.
Obviously I know that's a made up story, I was using it as an example. If you can't see what I'm getting at just now I don't think repeating myself's going to help. It's exactly what happened in the shop robbers' thread.
But to try and sum up, I'm of the belief that if you commit a crime the punishment should suit. I'd agree with the fact that that just doesn't happen in this country with some cases you hear i.e the so called 'victim' (kidnapper that got battered) in this case definetely deserved a long term in jail. But at the same time if the courts took such drastic action as to punish people by physically assaulting them it just wouldn't work in this type of country and you can't deny that.
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
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quote:
Originally posted by Richie
Sounds to me like alan is a thieving scumbag that's trying to convince us all not to twat him
[Edited on 16-12-2009 by Richie]
Take your 1.5 diesel megane and kindly get to fuck.
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GF-91
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Registered: 8th Jul 09
Location: Burnley!
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What's wrong with having a megane? You cock. Alan, take your brain (although it appears you don't have one) and get to Fuck.
You lace every thread with your bull shit!
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
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quote:
Originally posted by GaryF
What's wrong with having a megane? You cock. Alan, take your brain (although it appears you don't have one) and get to Fuck.
You lace every thread with your bull shit!
Nothing as long as you're not trying to call me a thieving scumbag, or talking shite. So based on the second fact there, you can also take the megane I'm assuming you've got with that arsey comment and also get to fuck.
And you telling me I'm lacing every thread with bs = irony with that brain comment. Sounds like the sort of thing a 7 year old would come out with.
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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quote:
Originally posted by alan-g-w
Are you seriously saying that if you were caught speeding you'd happliy take a beating with a bat as punishment?
I wouldn't be happy, would probably make me think more about speeding though.
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