Gary
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Registered: 22nd Nov 06
Location: West Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Moestavern isn't what's wrong with the world. Humans inability to embrace any concept of modern realism and intelligence, living their lives by a set of ancient fiction and made up text, believing said fiction so much so they are willing to kill other human beings, is what is wrong with the world.
[Edited on 15-01-2015 by Steve]
Same thing
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by MoesTavern
How can you support what something stands for without supporting the content itself?
You can support freedom of speech without the need to support a specific publication and/or content 
Although what i find astonishing, and damn right worrying, is that you appear to be quite happy to give up your freedom of speech and for 'higher-ups' to censor material all because you disagree with something written/drawn in a magazine (i suspect) you'd never heard of until a week ago....
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MoesTavern
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Registered: 19th Jul 07
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quote:
Originally posted by GB123
Somebody's rehashed opinions on what are at best, some questionable websites, doesn't really constitute an unbiased argument that allows you to form your own opinions rather than jump on the back of somebody else's, but never mind.
You asked for articles, I gave you some. Unless you wanted literal translations of Charlie Hebdo stuff with no commentary on it?
It stands to reason I'm going to post stuff I agree with. You're free to do the same.
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MoesTavern
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Registered: 19th Jul 07
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by MoesTavern
How can you support what something stands for without supporting the content itself?
You can support freedom of speech without the need to support a specific publication and/or content
Although what i find astonishing, and damn right worrying, is that you appear to be quite happy to give up your freedom of speech and for 'higher-ups' to censor material all because you disagree with something written/drawn in a magazine (i suspect) you'd never heard of until a week ago....
My own views of freedom of speech vs censorship have nothing to do with Charlie Hebdo.
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MoesTavern
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Registered: 19th Jul 07
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Moestavern isn't what's wrong with the world. Humans inability to embrace any concept of modern realism and intelligence, living their lives by a set of ancient fiction and made up text, believing said fiction so much so they are willing to kill other human beings, is what is wrong with the world.
[Edited on 15-01-2015 by Steve]
There are many people in the world, Steve who take their religion very seriously indeed. The fact that you personally think it's all bollocks does not make your opinion more valid.
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MoesTavern
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Registered: 19th Jul 07
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary
Moestavern is what's wrong with the world. Bet he'd go home and cry if someone called him a wanker.
No but I'd expect said person to understand the possible consequences of him calling me a wanker
[Edited on 16-01-2015 by MoesTavern]
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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quote:
Originally posted by MoesTavern
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Moestavern isn't what's wrong with the world. Humans inability to embrace any concept of modern realism and intelligence, living their lives by a set of ancient fiction and made up text, believing said fiction so much so they are willing to kill other human beings, is what is wrong with the world.
[Edited on 15-01-2015 by Steve]
There are many people in the world, Steve who take their religion very seriously indeed. The fact that you personally think it's all bollocks does not make your opinion more valid.
Forget my opinion, I'm just talking about basic intelligence and logic here 
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Steve
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You seem like a man who likes to find articles and evidence to support your argument. Find me some evidence to support your belief in the prophet mohammed
At the same time I will try and find evidence to support father Christmas
[Edited on 16-01-2015 by Steve]
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
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And please spare me links to the quran or Bible, these are just texts invented to appease humans inability to comprehend their existence and deal with the fact death comes at a time when they didn't have the intelligence or evidence to know any better. Humans should have advanced from this in the modern era.
I'm not against all aspects of religion, I quite respect the self discipline parts, eg fasting, its the belief in fictional characters. that have not one valid shred of evidence pointing to their actual existence, and humans stupidity to embrace this to the point of killing others that frankly has no place in the modern world.
[Edited on 16-01-2015 by Steve]
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MoesTavern
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Registered: 19th Jul 07
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I'm not a Muslim, Steve
I just don't like #JeSuisCharlie very much that's all mate, fucking hell.
I wasn't arguing in favour of Religion, just having a modicum of respect for those that do take it seriously.
It wasn't that long ago that Europeans were fighting and killing each other over who's religion was best.
Does the fact that our opinion on the subject has changed make us superior all of a sudden?
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Steve
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All fighting over ANY religion is utterly stupid.
Fine lets fight to gain territory or resources, thats kind of logical, fighting over made up characters boggles my mind
[Edited on 16-01-2015 by Steve]
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Steve
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Can you imagine if Germany say invaded Ukraine because their prime minister mocked Father Christmas, as utterly ridiculous as that sounds, that is no worse than why most of these wars are fought.
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MoesTavern
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Registered: 19th Jul 07
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Oh I agree. But like I said, there are people out there that do take it as seriously as that.
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andy1868
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Registered: 22nd Jun 06
Location: Burscough, Lancashire
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Well it's easy for an atheist to say it's mental to fight over a fictional person because to them it isn't real. To somebody with faith they're as real as resources etc.
It's the same notion for us as gaining territory, fighting to gain some land is bollocks. Countries are just imaginary lines drawn in the sand where humans have carved up the Earth, they have no fundamental meaning and are as made up as any religion yet nobody questions that
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
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I don't disagree that they genuinely believe in these people, however they should have the mental logic to see past what they have been brought up to believe when they get to any sort of age where they are able to think for themselves.
Hate to keep rehashing the father Christmas analogy, but I believed he was real up until about 10, at that point you start to be able to think for yourself and logic and basic intelligence tells you that its a load of crap.
But at the end of the day they are free to believe what they like, it is just my opinion that they are a bit dumb and stupid to vehemently believe in such tripe so strongly, which obviously doesn't count for much.
[Edited on 16-01-2015 by Steve]
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Steve
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Just as a bit of a tangent, obvisouly most muslims believe in their faith because that is what they have been brought up to believe in by their parents. I wonder how many from that background have actually gone against it and used logic to determine the set of circumstances they have been led to believe is highly unlikely and knocked it on the head.
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by MoesTavern
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by MoesTavern
How can you support what something stands for without supporting the content itself?
You can support freedom of speech without the need to support a specific publication and/or content
Although what i find astonishing, and damn right worrying, is that you appear to be quite happy to give up your freedom of speech and for 'higher-ups' to censor material all because you disagree with something written/drawn in a magazine (i suspect) you'd never heard of until a week ago....
http://media.giphy.com/media/5aLrlDiJPMPFS/giphy.gif
My own views of freedom of speech vs censorship have nothing to do with Charlie Hebdo.
But you're still all for freedom of speech to be removed and the media to be censored, which is pretty damn baffling in itself 
In a similar vain, i also imagine you're happy to back Cameron's recent brilliant idea of removing end-to-end encryption and for all communications to have 'backdoors' for sigint purposes?
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Balling
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Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
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quote:
Originally posted by MoesTavern
No but I'd expect said person to understand the possible consequences of him calling me a wanker
What possible consequences are those?
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GB123
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Registered: 21st Nov 11
Location: Kent
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He'll draw a cartoon of them.
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Balling
quote:
Originally posted by MoesTavern
No but I'd expect said person to understand the possible consequences of him calling me a wanker
What possible consequences are those?
I imagine getting mown done with AK47's whilst you're working  
[Edited on 16-01-2015 by Dom]
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dan_m1les
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Registered: 8th May 06
Location: Burnham, Buckinghamshire
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2913242/BREAKING-NEWS-New-Paris-hostage-terror-Gunman-claiming-armed-grenades-Kalashnikov-takes-two-people-captive-post-office.html
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Reecemac
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Registered: 7th Jun 06
Location: Essex
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The strangest thing I noticed from that was this picture.
An Alfa with a Ferrari logo.
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Gary
Premium Member
Registered: 22nd Nov 06
Location: West Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
All fighting over ANY religion is utterly stupid.
Fine lets fight to gain territory or resources, thats kind of logical, fighting over made up characters boggles my mind
[Edited on 16-01-2015 by Steve]
That's because your not a moron. Well, you are, but that kind of moron.
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andy1868
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Registered: 22nd Jun 06
Location: Burscough, Lancashire
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Fighting for a religion is no different to fighting for a country. The armed forces choose to believe that this country is worth fighting for in the same way that jihadists believe that Islam is worth fighting for there is no difference. Would you say that our armed forces are deluded and moronic?
I'm not a religious man, and quite frankly I think the world would be a better place without it, but looking down on other people for not sharing your thoughts because YOU believe them to be right makes you as closed minded as them.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who wake up one day and decide that religion isn't for for them. But if you think that somebody who truly has faith is going to be swayed into not believing any more because they haven't seen any evidence then im not sure you're understanding the meaning of the word faith.
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MoesTavern
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Registered: 19th Jul 07
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by MoesTavern
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by MoesTavern
How can you support what something stands for without supporting the content itself?
You can support freedom of speech without the need to support a specific publication and/or content
Although what i find astonishing, and damn right worrying, is that you appear to be quite happy to give up your freedom of speech and for 'higher-ups' to censor material all because you disagree with something written/drawn in a magazine (i suspect) you'd never heard of until a week ago....
http://media.giphy.com/media/5aLrlDiJPMPFS/giphy.gif
My own views of freedom of speech vs censorship have nothing to do with Charlie Hebdo.
But you're still all for freedom of speech to be removed and the media to be censored, which is pretty damn baffling in itself
In a similar vain, i also imagine you're happy to back Cameron's recent brilliant idea of removing end-to-end encryption and for all communications to have 'backdoors' for sigint purposes?
I don't really understand why the idea of censorship is so horrifying to you. Why does it have to be one extreme or the other?
Moderate censorship is possible with a sensible government, surely?
It doesn't have to be a slippery slope to a totalitarian regime.
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