Cavey
Member
Registered: 11th Nov 02
Location: Derby
User status: Offline
|
Mainly because hell isn't real?
|
JonnyJ
Member
Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
|
Fair enough pal. Well my opinion is it wont change a thing.
I mean Watkins had every thing to lose, its not like he was a down and out deadbeat, he was widely respected, probably a millionaire, world famous. Even without losing 36 years of your life, losing all the aforementioned should be enough for anyone to stay squeaky clean, yet, it wasnt.
If retribution is all you care about then fire away, but if you actually want to try reduce crime then you need to look at why people are committing these crimes in the first place.
|
JonnyJ
Member
Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
|
That was to p btw 
|
Eck
Premium Member
Registered: 17th Apr 06
Location: Lundin Links, Fife
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Cavey
Mainly because hell isn't real?
Really mate?
|
p
Member
Registered: 20th Apr 04
Location: England
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Fair enough pal. Well my opinion is it wont change a thing.
I mean Watkins had every thing to lose, its not like he was a down and out deadbeat, he was widely respected, probably a millionaire, world famous. Even without losing 36 years of your life, losing all the aforementioned should be enough for anyone to stay squeaky clean, yet, it wasnt.
If retribution is all you care about then fire away, but if you actually want to try reduce crime then you need to look at why people are committing these crimes in the first place.
I can see what you're saying, I really can.
Thing is, what you said oddly doesn't matter... Being a millionaire, being famous, the guy was sick, mentally ill, and probably had been for a long, long time. Maybe he had family history with mental illness as well. Also, as we all know, him being famous made things worse, because he used his position of power as exactly that, the power to manipulate through his fame etc. You know what I mean?
You say he had everything to lose, but this guy had no rational, none at all. I very much doubt his mind came up with 'this is wrong, shit, I could lose all my money over this' in a very warped way, he had no control over what he was doing, yet he completely did. He also showed no remorse, no emotion, nothing, if anything he saw it as a joke. He had a serious, serious illness, I mean that goes without saying. It's all quite unbelievable all of this, it really is. Because as you say, it's easy to say he had everything to lose, and the money, and that's how I imagine a logical person would think about it, but as said, he wasn't thinking like a logical person.
I mean what you said at the end is very Guardian, and I can see what you mean. It's a very difficult issue. I personally believe very strong and very harsh sentences, as a deterrent, one would hope. But as said, it's very difficult. So many parameters etc.
[Edited on 19-12-2013 by p]
|
JonnyJ
Member
Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
|
Aye well thats what i was saying, the guy clearly is mentally unwell, sick, whatever. So you could put whatever 'deterrent' in place, it wouldnt matter. So you havent really solved anything.
The poor kid(s) were still subjected to horrible abuse and no punishment you give to the abusers can ever take that away, nor would it have prevented it.
Theres no clear solution, all we can do is to try to study these individuals, find out what makes them like they are, then come up with answers from there, is it something we can fix? Spot early on and prevent? And whilst we do all that, keep the rest of society safe from them.
Basically, like everyone, they're no use dead.
|
JonnyJ
Member
Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
|
Co-incidentally im watching a program on Russia's prisons. Pretty fucking rough in there, prisoners get nothing, tiny, tiny rooms, not allowed to sit down in the day. A pretty awful existence basically. The murder rate in Russia? 5 times higher than the USA.
I cant see anything that says harsh punishments = less crime.
|
p
Member
Registered: 20th Apr 04
Location: England
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Co-incidentally im watching a program on Russia's prisons. Pretty fucking rough in there, prisoners get nothing, tiny, tiny rooms, not allowed to sit down in the day. A pretty awful existence basically. The murder rate in Russia? 5 times higher than the USA.
I cant see anything that says harsh punishments = less crime.
Two pretty big countries....
Is that the one where the guy killed someone, then gave his friends the dead person to eat, and pretended it was goat or something?
So are you for TV/Playstation's in prisons or Russia style?
|
JonnyJ
Member
Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
|
I dont think prison conditions make too much of a difference, at least they dont seem to the there. FWIW i reckon how cushty our prisons are probably over exaggerated a little, not every prisoner is sat in their cell with a 40 inch plasma and a PS4 with BF4 hooked up online, if its so good, why dont we all go and get sent there
Im all for a bit of discipline in prisons however and good behaviour and hard graft inside should be rewarded. Just like in the outside world.
|
p
Member
Registered: 20th Apr 04
Location: England
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
I dont think prison conditions make too much of a difference, at least they dont seem to the there. FWIW i reckon how cushty our prisons are probably over exaggerated a little, not every prisoner is sat in their cell with a 40 inch plasma and a PS4 with BF4 hooked up online, if its so good, why dont we all go and get sent there
Im all for a bit of discipline in prisons however and good behaviour and hard graft inside should be rewarded. Just like in the outside world.
Do you read The Guardian 
|
JonnyJ
Member
Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
|
Nah mate, i dont make a habit of reading newspapers, infact I've never bought one and dont read any online (other than links posted by others) they all have their own agenda, i prefer to base my opinions on stuff i experience in my own life.
|
p
Member
Registered: 20th Apr 04
Location: England
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Nah mate, i dont make a habit of reading newspapers, infact I've never bought one and dont read any online (other than links posted by others) they all have their own agenda, i prefer to base my opinions on stuff i experience in my own life.
Good lad.
I hope you don't watch the BBC as well 
|
JonnyJ
Member
Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
|
Of course i do, they make fantastic documentaries and Top Gear is on there
|
p
Member
Registered: 20th Apr 04
Location: England
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Of course i do, they make fantastic documentaries and Top Gear is on there
But they have an agenda as well just the same as the newspapers, The Guardian in particular. Hell, they all do, lets face it. Pro left, pro right, some hide it better than others, mind.
|
JonnyJ
Member
Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
|
Aye i know they do, the amount of time they gave to Thatcher was sickening, the right wing bastards
|
p
Member
Registered: 20th Apr 04
Location: England
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Aye i know they do, the amount of time they gave to Thatcher was sickening, the right wing bastards
Think they were just happy she was dead tbh, that was their way of showing it
|
Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by p
Do you read The Guardian
quote:
Originally posted by p
I hope you don't watch the BBC as well
Are you DrPepper in disguise?
Tbf, i'd rather read the Guardian (prefer the Telegraph/Times but will happily read it if it's going) or watch the BBC than read Red Top's or watch shite like Fox News 
Edit - Regarding harsher punishments, i don't believe (from what i've read/seen) there is a correlation between harsh punishments and lower crime ratings; same with death penalties. And whilst i'd agree that there are a few pro's regarding death penalties, primarily freeing up cell space and financial gains, there's far too many inaccuracies in evidence causing wrongful sentences (saying 'whoops! Oh well' doesn't really cut it) for it to be a viable punishment.
[Edited on 19-12-2013 by Dom]
|
p
Member
Registered: 20th Apr 04
Location: England
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by p
Do you read The Guardian
quote:
Originally posted by p
I hope you don't watch the BBC as well
Are you DrPepper in disguise?
Tbf, i'd rather read the Guardian (prefer the Telegraph/Times but will happily read it if it's going) or watch the BBC than read Red Top's or watch shite like Fox News
Are red tops even considered a newspaper? I frequent the Telegraph/Times, but not much any more. Well Fox News is pretty right wing, if that suits an individuals agenda then they're going to watch it. They have some fittun's on Fox, though.
Do you say Fox News is shite as they are right wing biased, and you prefer something more left or the middle? They maintain they're 'fair and balanced' but they're not, they're clearly right. But to be fair, they do have liberal guests and commentators etc but they generally get blasted down, but they do get to opine.
[Edited on 19-12-2013 by p]
|
JonnyJ
Member
Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
User status: Offline
|
Well, this is off topic now probably a good thing in this case however
|
John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
|
I still want to know what happened to the Bentley.
|
p
Member
Registered: 20th Apr 04
Location: England
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by John
I still want to know what happened to the Bentley.
Sold. Business venture. Tits up. Story end.
|
Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by p
Do you say Fox News is shite as they are right wing biased, and you prefer something more left or the middle? They maintain they're 'fair and balanced' but they're not, they're clearly right. But to be fair, they do have liberal guests and commentators etc but they generally get blasted down, but they do get to opine.
Generally i have little issue with news outlets being biased - everyones got an opinion. But it's how Fox News are so extreme in reporting their political views where they'll happily twist facts to the point where it ends up being unfactual and incorrect which gets my back up.
It's literally 'news' for fuckwits created by fuckwits, where no one knows arse from elbow or how to wipe either 
[Edited on 19-12-2013 by Dom]
|
p
Member
Registered: 20th Apr 04
Location: England
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by p
Do you say Fox News is shite as they are right wing biased, and you prefer something more left or the middle? They maintain they're 'fair and balanced' but they're not, they're clearly right. But to be fair, they do have liberal guests and commentators etc but they generally get blasted down, but they do get to opine.
Generally i have little issue with news outlets being biased - everyones got an opinion. But it's how Fox News are so extreme in reporting their political views where they'll happily twist facts to the point where it ends up being unfactual and incorrect which gets my back up.
Possibly. Did you watch them over Benghazi?
Do you watch the factor?
|
Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by p
Possibly. Did you watch them over Benghazi?
Do you watch the factor?
Try not to watch it if i can help it
What happened with their Benghazi reporting?
Bill O'Reilly's show? Only seen a few reports by him but the guy needs a punch in the face
|
p
Member
Registered: 20th Apr 04
Location: England
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by p
Possibly. Did you watch them over Benghazi?
Do you watch the factor?
Try not to watch it if i can help it
What happened with their Benghazi reporting?
Bill O'Reilly's show? Only seen a few reports by him but the guy needs a punch in the face
That opinion already from a few shows
Nothing per se.... Just an emphasis on a networks agenda that's all.
|
