corsasport.co.uk
 

Corsa Sport » Message Board » General Chat » The REAL truth about Concorde


New Topic

New Poll
  <<  1    2  >> Subscribe | Add to Favourites

You are not logged in and may not post or reply to messages. Please log in or create a new account or mail us about fixing an existing one - register@corsasport.co.uk

There are also many more features available when you are logged in such as private messages, buddy list, location services, post search and more.


Author The REAL truth about Concorde
Super_si
Member

Registered: 4th Mar 01
Location: lurkin' somewhere........................
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:15   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Its a fucking plane
Gambit
Member

Registered: 5th Jun 00
Location: Common Sense HQ
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:16   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

its an engineering masterpiece though
Tiger
Member

Registered: 12th Jun 01
Location: Leicestershire Drives:Astra VXR
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:18   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

When they announce the launch of "Aurora" the world will stand still.
bradfincham
Member

Registered: 20th Sep 02
Location: East Of England Drives: Clio 172
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:19   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

its engineering masterpiece as gambit said, and a large piece of british history!
probably one of the few things we have designed and built
Recaro1
Member

Registered: 25th Mar 02
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:21   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

I agree with Brad,

We're the only country who has them.

To think it was designed and built 30 years ago and is still the fastest commercial plane.
Super_si
Member

Registered: 4th Mar 01
Location: lurkin' somewhere........................
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:22   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Why is there actually going to be some replacement?

I think the thorn in its paw was the Charle d'gaule incident
Nismo
Member

Registered: 12th Sep 02
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:25   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

like the news said we dont want speed we want a plane that can carry thousands of people.

yes it was a engineering masterpiece but we never sold 1 we had to give them all away.

Gambit
Member

Registered: 5th Jun 00
Location: Common Sense HQ
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:25   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

the charles de gaule incident was caused by a strip of loose metal dropped on the runway by another plane previous to when concorde took off

concorde hit it, cause the tyre to explode send bits into the wings and rupturing the fuel tanks.
Super_si
Member

Registered: 4th Mar 01
Location: lurkin' somewhere........................
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:26   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

The space shuttle had a piece of foam that pierced the leading wing.

Whats your point?
Bart
Member

Registered: 19th Aug 02
Location: Midsomer Norton, Bristol Avon
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:26   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
its an engineering masterpiece though


Indeed. But was only made my mistake.
The design of concorde wasnt what the customer originally wanted and hence why its being stopped.
Tiger
Member

Registered: 12th Jun 01
Location: Leicestershire Drives:Astra VXR
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:26   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

The Aurora is a hypersonic aircraft developed in the Nevada desert at the military base that doesnt really exist.

Its nothing special but simply travels in the outer atmosphere where there is little resistance. Using modern technology (not like the 60's technology of the concorde) it will fly at around 5 times the speed of sound.
Super_si
Member

Registered: 4th Mar 01
Location: lurkin' somewhere........................
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:28   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Sounds like something off Command and Conquer Generals
Gambit
Member

Registered: 5th Jun 00
Location: Common Sense HQ
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:28   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

space shuttle was its own cause

concorde's wasn't
Tiger
Member

Registered: 12th Jun 01
Location: Leicestershire Drives:Astra VXR
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:29   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Super_si
Sounds like something off Command and Conquer Generals


Watch this space
Super_si
Member

Registered: 4th Mar 01
Location: lurkin' somewhere........................
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:30   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Not really it was purly unlucky. No one could fore see them both. Gives bad press simple as.

The Aurora bombers on there and its awesome
Tiger
Member

Registered: 12th Jun 01
Location: Leicestershire Drives:Astra VXR
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:32   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Here's The Aurora in all its glory:

Speed:
Maximum operational speeds are reported to be in the range of Mach 5-8.

Length:
About 110 feet (33.5 meters)

Wingspan:
About 60 feet (18.2 meters)

Ceiling:
May have an operational altitude of 150,000 feet (28.4 miles) or higher.

Design:
The Aurora aircraft has an airframe like a flattened American football, about 110 ft long and 60 ft wide, smoothly contoured, and covered in ceramic tiles similar to those used on the Space Shuttle which seem to be coated with "a crystalline patina indicative of sustained exposure to high temperature. . . a burnt carbon odor exudes from the surface."

Engine:
Several witnesses have heard a distinctive low frequency rumble followed by a very loud roar, which could be the exotic engine used by a Mach 6 (4,400 miles per hour) aircraft. Experts say a methane-burning combined cycle ramjet engine (uniting rocket and ramjet designs) could have been developed to power Aurora. Observers in California have also reported seeing a large aircraft with a delta-wing shape and foreplanes. Some think this could be an airborne launch platform for satellite-delivery rockets or even the Aurora, before its more advanced engines were developed.

Power comes from conventional jet engines in the lower fuselage, fed by inlet ducts which open in the tiled surface. Once at supersonic speed, the engines are shut down, and Pulse Detonation Wave Engines take over, ejecting liquid methane or liquid hydrogen onto the fuselage, where the fuel mist is ignited, possibly by surface heating.

A vast amount of rumours, conjecture, eye-witness sightings and other evidence point to an aircraft, funded as a Black Project, built by the Lockheed Skunk Works, operating out of the Groom Lake / Area 51 location. Always at night, never photographed, officially denied... This is the Aurora Project. No matter what speculation takes place, it seems the secrets that lie beyond the mountains of the Nevada desert will remain until the US military decides otherwise.

Power Plant:
At subsonic speeds power comes from conventional jet engines in the lower fuselage, fed by inlet ducts which open in the tiled surface. Once at supersonic speed, there are three possibilities for the propulsion that carries the plane up to its mach 5+ speed:


PWDE Pulse Detonation Wave Engines - Essentially, liquid methane or liquid hydrogen is ejected onto the fuselage, where the fuel mist is ignited, possibly by surface heating. The PDE Pulse Detonation Engine (PDE) operates by creating a liquid hydrogen detonation inside a specially designed chamber when the aircraft is traveling beyond the speed of sound. When traveling at such speeds, a thrust wall (the aircraft is traveling so fast that a molecules in the air are rapidly pushed aside near the nose of the aircraft which in essence becomes a wall)is created in the front of the aircraft. When the detonation takes place, the the aircraft's thrust wall is pushed forward. This all is repeated to propel the aircraft. From the ground, the jet stream looks like "rings on a rope". Another reader thinks this method is very suspicious. He goes on "a serious problem with the SR-71 and other high-speed aircraft is excessive skin heating. The last thing you want is to add combustion at or near the surface." Please click HERE for our page about PDWE's.


Ramjet - A reader points out that there is "a second possible power plant design, the Combined Cycle Ramjet Engine. Essentially, it is a rocket until it goes supersonic. At that point the rocket nozzles are withdrawn and the engines run as ramjets up to Mach 4-6. With a few minor modifications to the shape of the combustion housing, you could soup the power plant up to a scramjet, which could see speeds up to and beyond Mach 8. The fuel for this power plant could be liquid methane or methylcyclohexane, plus liquid oxygen as an oxidizer in the primary 'rocket' stage. Further data on this power plant is available through Popular Science Magazine, March 1993 issue. "However another reader feels that a ramjet is not a possible propulsion source because "the National Aerospace Plane (NASP) was cancelled in large part due to the inability to solve the materials problems with the proposed supersonic ramjets. I don't think there has been enough progress, even in the black world to solve these problems. Further, RAMJET doesn't leave doughnuts on a rope."


Regular Pulsejet - Pulsejets uses the forward speed of the engine and the inlet shape to compress the incoming air, then shutters at the inlet close while fuel is ignited in the combustion chamber and the pressure of the expanding gases force the jet forward. The shutters open and the process repeats itself at a high frequency. This results in the buzzing drone for which the pulsejet missile is named: the buzzbomb. A reader points out that "pulsejets can be cooled to solve the materials problems of supersonic ramjets. They could also generate doughnuts on a rope although this is speculation as I am unaware of any previous actual tests at high altitude." Please click HERE for our page about pulsejets.


Turbo Rocket Jet - An AAP reader named Daniel Murray gave us this possible description and image of another propultion method.



This is a conceptional drawing of AURORA's engines. Although many of us Area 51 enthusiast believe that the AURORA'S engines are Ramjets or Pulse Detonation Wave Engines but I have reasons to believe otherwise. There is a new hype in the engine business. Cost effective, multi purpose engines. An engine that can fly in the atmosphere as well in space wile being completely reusable (or like a conventional jet which doesn't need its engines replaced every flight). The TRJ or Turbo Rocket Jet engine uses an internal rocket motor (Hydrogen and Oxygen fueled). The elongated combustion chamber allows a set of turbine blades which turn the power shaft. The power shaft runs the length of the engine from tip to tail. The fan and compressor blades are powered by the rockets turbines. The compressors compress the incoming air into a shaft were the fuel injectors and ignition nodes are located. The fuel is mixed with the air (like a conventional jet engine) and then is ignited by a high amp and voltage electrical arc that fires from one side of the shaft to the opposite. The evenly ignited mixture allows for better fuel economy. The ignited and expanded gases rush out of the shaft to an afterburner, and then are released out of the end of the engine. The great thing about this engine is that it can be partially shut down (the fan and compression blades) and used only on the rocket engines power. Also the Jet engine part of the engine can turn over the power shaft by itself. So for only low powered flights or descends the engine's rocket motor does not need to be initiated. The jet engine section will use regular jet fuel, or even hydrogen. Hydrogen will most likely be used, because then the'll be no separate fuel tanks. The drawing I have included is conceptional only and may have few parts that differ slightly from the actual engine.




Armament:
Although it has been rumored that the Aurora is equipped with the capability of carrying air-to-ground armaments, it is unlikely that the aircraft is designed for, or able to, support armaments. It is likely the plane is equipped for reconnaissance only.

There has been some debate about this though, as there was a Phoenix Air to Air missile that was designed to be carried in the F-12 (Basically a later interceptor version of the SR-71). This missile can only be carried by the F-12, the F-111 and the F-14 Tomcat. This missile might also be usable on the Aurora.

Mission:
Reconnaissance missions.

Contractor:
It is rumored that the Aurora was designed and built by Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co., the same company who built the SR-71.

The SR-71 has served as one of the only aircraft capable of performing a mobile reconnaissance mission. Although satellites are useful in this role, the SR-71 had the advantage of going wherever and whenever an "eye-in-the-sky" is needed. In spite of this funding for the SR-71 program was canceled in 1989 and SR-71 flights ceased.

Given the importance of the role of the SR-71, and the fact that it is the only plane capable of performing that role, it has been suggested that government must have some secret aircraft that was capable of replacing the SR-71. According to Richard H. Graham, Col., USAF in his book SR-71 Revealed, "in 1990, Senator Byrd and other influential members of congress were told a successor to the SR-71 was being developed and that was why it was being retired. The "Aurora" could be this plane.

This argument is weakened by the fact that in 1995, Congress approved $100 million to bring the SR-71's back into service. One argument is that the Aurora was abandoned, either due to expense or technical difficulties, and that the SR-71 had to be brought back to resume its mobile surveillance role.

Legacy:
The Aurora might be a follow-up project, or research project from the XB-70 Valkyrie.

Gambit
Member

Registered: 5th Jun 00
Location: Common Sense HQ
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:34   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

we need an artists impression!!
Tiger
Member

Registered: 12th Jun 01
Location: Leicestershire Drives:Astra VXR
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:35   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Im looking.
Tiger
Member

Registered: 12th Jun 01
Location: Leicestershire Drives:Astra VXR
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:36   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Gambit
Member

Registered: 5th Jun 00
Location: Common Sense HQ
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:37   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

mad
Super_si
Member

Registered: 4th Mar 01
Location: lurkin' somewhere........................
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:37   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Suppose the technology is there just maybe a pipe dream............
vibrio
Banned

Registered: 28th Feb 01
Location: POAH
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:37   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by bradfincham
its engineering masterpiece as gambit said, and a large piece of british history!
probably one of the few things we have designed and built



please note the French involvement in this project
vibrio
Banned

Registered: 28th Feb 01
Location: POAH
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:39   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Tiger
Here's The Aurora in all its glory:

Speed:
Maximum operational speeds are reported to be in the range of Mach 5-8.

Length:
About 110 feet (33.5 meters)

Wingspan:
About 60 feet (18.2 meters)

Ceiling:
May have an operational altitude of 150,000 feet (28.4 miles) or higher.

Design:
The Aurora aircraft has an airframe like a flattened American football, about 110 ft long and 60 ft wide, smoothly contoured, and covered in ceramic tiles similar to those used on the Space Shuttle which seem to be coated with "a crystalline patina indicative of sustained exposure to high temperature. . . a burnt carbon odor exudes from the surface."

Engine:
Several witnesses have heard a distinctive low frequency rumble followed by a very loud roar, which could be the exotic engine used by a Mach 6 (4,400 miles per hour) aircraft. Experts say a methane-burning combined cycle ramjet engine (uniting rocket and ramjet designs) could have been developed to power Aurora. Observers in California have also reported seeing a large aircraft with a delta-wing shape and foreplanes. Some think this could be an airborne launch platform for satellite-delivery rockets or even the Aurora, before its more advanced engines were developed.

Power comes from conventional jet engines in the lower fuselage, fed by inlet ducts which open in the tiled surface. Once at supersonic speed, the engines are shut down, and Pulse Detonation Wave Engines take over, ejecting liquid methane or liquid hydrogen onto the fuselage, where the fuel mist is ignited, possibly by surface heating.

A vast amount of rumours, conjecture, eye-witness sightings and other evidence point to an aircraft, funded as a Black Project, built by the Lockheed Skunk Works, operating out of the Groom Lake / Area 51 location. Always at night, never photographed, officially denied... This is the Aurora Project. No matter what speculation takes place, it seems the secrets that lie beyond the mountains of the Nevada desert will remain until the US military decides otherwise.

Power Plant:
At subsonic speeds power comes from conventional jet engines in the lower fuselage, fed by inlet ducts which open in the tiled surface. Once at supersonic speed, there are three possibilities for the propulsion that carries the plane up to its mach 5+ speed:


PWDE Pulse Detonation Wave Engines - Essentially, liquid methane or liquid hydrogen is ejected onto the fuselage, where the fuel mist is ignited, possibly by surface heating. The PDE Pulse Detonation Engine (PDE) operates by creating a liquid hydrogen detonation inside a specially designed chamber when the aircraft is traveling beyond the speed of sound. When traveling at such speeds, a thrust wall (the aircraft is traveling so fast that a molecules in the air are rapidly pushed aside near the nose of the aircraft which in essence becomes a wall)is created in the front of the aircraft. When the detonation takes place, the the aircraft's thrust wall is pushed forward. This all is repeated to propel the aircraft. From the ground, the jet stream looks like "rings on a rope". Another reader thinks this method is very suspicious. He goes on "a serious problem with the SR-71 and other high-speed aircraft is excessive skin heating. The last thing you want is to add combustion at or near the surface." Please click HERE for our page about PDWE's.


Ramjet - A reader points out that there is "a second possible power plant design, the Combined Cycle Ramjet Engine. Essentially, it is a rocket until it goes supersonic. At that point the rocket nozzles are withdrawn and the engines run as ramjets up to Mach 4-6. With a few minor modifications to the shape of the combustion housing, you could soup the power plant up to a scramjet, which could see speeds up to and beyond Mach 8. The fuel for this power plant could be liquid methane or methylcyclohexane, plus liquid oxygen as an oxidizer in the primary 'rocket' stage. Further data on this power plant is available through Popular Science Magazine, March 1993 issue. "However another reader feels that a ramjet is not a possible propulsion source because "the National Aerospace Plane (NASP) was cancelled in large part due to the inability to solve the materials problems with the proposed supersonic ramjets. I don't think there has been enough progress, even in the black world to solve these problems. Further, RAMJET doesn't leave doughnuts on a rope."


Regular Pulsejet - Pulsejets uses the forward speed of the engine and the inlet shape to compress the incoming air, then shutters at the inlet close while fuel is ignited in the combustion chamber and the pressure of the expanding gases force the jet forward. The shutters open and the process repeats itself at a high frequency. This results in the buzzing drone for which the pulsejet missile is named: the buzzbomb. A reader points out that "pulsejets can be cooled to solve the materials problems of supersonic ramjets. They could also generate doughnuts on a rope although this is speculation as I am unaware of any previous actual tests at high altitude." Please click HERE for our page about pulsejets.


Turbo Rocket Jet - An AAP reader named Daniel Murray gave us this possible description and image of another propultion method.



This is a conceptional drawing of AURORA's engines. Although many of us Area 51 enthusiast believe that the AURORA'S engines are Ramjets or Pulse Detonation Wave Engines but I have reasons to believe otherwise. There is a new hype in the engine business. Cost effective, multi purpose engines. An engine that can fly in the atmosphere as well in space wile being completely reusable (or like a conventional jet which doesn't need its engines replaced every flight). The TRJ or Turbo Rocket Jet engine uses an internal rocket motor (Hydrogen and Oxygen fueled). The elongated combustion chamber allows a set of turbine blades which turn the power shaft. The power shaft runs the length of the engine from tip to tail. The fan and compressor blades are powered by the rockets turbines. The compressors compress the incoming air into a shaft were the fuel injectors and ignition nodes are located. The fuel is mixed with the air (like a conventional jet engine) and then is ignited by a high amp and voltage electrical arc that fires from one side of the shaft to the opposite. The evenly ignited mixture allows for better fuel economy. The ignited and expanded gases rush out of the shaft to an afterburner, and then are released out of the end of the engine. The great thing about this engine is that it can be partially shut down (the fan and compression blades) and used only on the rocket engines power. Also the Jet engine part of the engine can turn over the power shaft by itself. So for only low powered flights or descends the engine's rocket motor does not need to be initiated. The jet engine section will use regular jet fuel, or even hydrogen. Hydrogen will most likely be used, because then the'll be no separate fuel tanks. The drawing I have included is conceptional only and may have few parts that differ slightly from the actual engine.




Armament:
Although it has been rumored that the Aurora is equipped with the capability of carrying air-to-ground armaments, it is unlikely that the aircraft is designed for, or able to, support armaments. It is likely the plane is equipped for reconnaissance only.

There has been some debate about this though, as there was a Phoenix Air to Air missile that was designed to be carried in the F-12 (Basically a later interceptor version of the SR-71). This missile can only be carried by the F-12, the F-111 and the F-14 Tomcat. This missile might also be usable on the Aurora.

Mission:
Reconnaissance missions.

Contractor:
It is rumored that the Aurora was designed and built by Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co., the same company who built the SR-71.

The SR-71 has served as one of the only aircraft capable of performing a mobile reconnaissance mission. Although satellites are useful in this role, the SR-71 had the advantage of going wherever and whenever an "eye-in-the-sky" is needed. In spite of this funding for the SR-71 program was canceled in 1989 and SR-71 flights ceased.

Given the importance of the role of the SR-71, and the fact that it is the only plane capable of performing that role, it has been suggested that government must have some secret aircraft that was capable of replacing the SR-71. According to Richard H. Graham, Col., USAF in his book SR-71 Revealed, "in 1990, Senator Byrd and other influential members of congress were told a successor to the SR-71 was being developed and that was why it was being retired. The "Aurora" could be this plane.

This argument is weakened by the fact that in 1995, Congress approved $100 million to bring the SR-71's back into service. One argument is that the Aurora was abandoned, either due to expense or technical difficulties, and that the SR-71 had to be brought back to resume its mobile surveillance role.

Legacy:
The Aurora might be a follow-up project, or research project from the XB-70 Valkyrie.





XB-70 collided with a starfighter in the early 70's. project was cancelled after that
Gambit
Member

Registered: 5th Jun 00
Location: Common Sense HQ
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:42   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by vibrio
quote:
Originally posted by bradfincham
its engineering masterpiece as gambit said, and a large piece of british history!
probably one of the few things we have designed and built



please note the French involvement in this project


the french part was to give the plans to the russians
Tiger
Member

Registered: 12th Jun 01
Location: Leicestershire Drives:Astra VXR
User status: Offline
24th Oct 03 at 15:48   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Thats correct Ross - thats why this is the bare shell of development and basic design structure of the ill fated XB-70

  <<  1    2  >>
New Topic

New Poll

Corsa Sport » Message Board » General Chat » The REAL truth about Concorde 22 database queries in 0.0258999 seconds